log of my 14b after 550's, seems right?

[calreef18]

Hey everyone here's the log:

rpms tps timing o2v air flow
3268 98 9 .93 22.82
4664 98 10 .97 22.09
5036 98 11 .97 23.96
5468 98 13 .97 25.31
5852 98 15 .95 25.92
6192 98 15 .95 26.60
6464 98 17 .95 26.77

Tuned with a safc, mods in my profile to 18psi, I just put in the 550's today and tried to retune. From what I read, the air flow is on the low side because of the way the afc corrects for the injectors? I use to see 30lb/min peak at 15psi on the stock 450's. Let me know what y'all think. Thanks!

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Looks a tad rich to me, high o2 values. But could be perfectly normal for your car. You would know better than we would if those are normal values. But your timing doesn't look too bad, other than being sky high. No doutb due to the use of an SAFC.

Can you provide a better log?
Was this in 3rd gear?
Please provide a WOT log from 2500 to 7000. We'll be able to get a better idea of whats going on.

Also whats is your sample rate on your logger? It seems quite low. If you can get it up to 15/s or more we should be able to get a much clearer picture of your car's health as well.

 

[calreef18]

Yea they read kinda high after a new o2 install, but if I lean it out anymore I get some knock. I'll try to log with just rpm timing and o2 so I can try and get more samples. This was 3rd, kinda hard to pull off in an auto but I'm able to get it to go without downshifting if I try a few times.

 

[xveganxcowboyx]

Does the timing seem high to you? I see over 20 degrees on a regular basis. I was thinking it was low, but I only have mine to compare too.

I would guess you could take out some fuel in the mid range. Where are you getting knock if you take out fuel?

Will the car not stay in third gear if you put it in third?

 

[calreef18]

Well its an auto, so I have to wait until it shifts to 3rd, and then go WOT without it downshifting to second. With my old t25 I use to get timing above 20 too, and my base idle timing has always been 5 degrees so that isn't the problem. When I had -20 across the board I got knock towards the bottom and up top, I added some around 3000k and 6000k and got rid of it.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Your o2's are probably within range if much leaner gives you knock.
With a 2g it is not uncommon to see a max of 24* timing on the T-25, but with an SAFC and a 14b, 26* or more is quite high and is no doutb due in part to having the SAFC itself. The SAFC lies to the ECU about airflow, thus the ECU just keeps increasing timing. It's normal for your setup. Nature of the beast.

Definitely post back when you've got a better log.

Summary: Given what we know, provided a new log doesn't show us something different, I'd say your tuning is fairly good.

 

[Dream On]

http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169959

 

[xveganxcowboyx]

With a 2g it is not uncommon to see a max of 24* timing on the T-25, but with an SAFC and a 14b, 26* or more is quite high and is no doutb due in part to having the SAFC itself. The SAFC lies to the ECU about airflow, thus the ECU just keeps increasing timing. It's normal for your setup. Nature of the beast.

Unless I've misread something his timing ranges from 9*-17*. I believe you are looking at airflow numbers.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Unless I've misread something his timing ranges from 9*-17*. I believe you are looking at airflow numbers.

Haha, don't I look like a douche.
Absolutely correct. I misread it.

Upon further READING , it looks like you're still getting a bit of knock (holding timing) in the 5800-6100 range.
For me, to suggest anything else we'll need that improved log.

 

[2gGSX]

I'm assuming that you haven't adjusted those airflow readings for the SAFC compensation. To adjust for the compensation do this:

Airflow/[1-(SAFC compensation)/100]

For example, for your peak airflow (26.77 lbs/min) and say your SAFC is pulling 18% airflow, you are actually flowing 26.77/.82 = 32.64 lbs/min

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Interesting, thanks for the info.
If true that means that he could potentially be running 320hp at the crank at 17psi on a 14b, no?

 

[2gGSX]

In short, assuming there are no metering issues or anything else interfering with the airflow signal then yes, his car would have the capability to make 320 crank hp at 17 psi which equates to roughly 270-280 whp assuming his drivetrain loss is similar to that of other peoples' (and that drivetrain loss remains static).

 

[calreef18]

Sweet, I actually turned boost down from 18 to 17psi and the car feels better imo, I had a typo on my first post. I'm still in the process of tuning it (haven't had too much time today other than a couple pulls here and there) but I'm making progress. I tried decreasing logged parameters but the sample rate still sucks. I'll update as soon as its tuned with a decent log. I started off at -18% across the board, pulled a perfect log, but the o2 seemed a bit rich around 4000rpm I know narrowband o2 can't really be trusted, but I knocked down to -19% across, did another pull, had pulled a degree of timing at 5400 and 6400 so I returned from 5000 to 6500 back to -18%, and I still get knock (pull a degree of timing) for some kinda of reason at 5400. Maybe heat soak from the smic? I'm kinda stumped, I shouldn't have to go -17% if I didn't knock at all with -18% across should I?

 

[CanadianTSi]

You need to lower the byte timing to get a better sample rate.

 

[Midnightride]

2gGSX----

Can you shed some more light on the airflow compensation? I basically doing the same thing as the person posted on here. 2G auto with 14B tunning for 20/21 psi. I do have supporting mods.

When I did a pull my egts were really high, past 1600. We dumbt more fuel in but that didnt seem to help. We were thinking it was phantom knock or knock due to having to much fuel in there. Either way I ordered pocketlogger cause i was using the free software and it just didnt do what needed.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Can you shed some more light on the airflow compensation?

The Airflow number that you see on a logger is after it has been changed by the S-AFC. So if your S-AFC setting is -20 then the ECU is seeing 20% less airflow at that rpm then there actually is. So In order to get your real airflow numbers you need to use the formula above.

 

[2gGSX]

CanadianTSi is right in his explanation. As for your high EGTs check your base timing to see if it's off--your EGTs indicate that your car is pulling a lot of timing (dumping more fuel will not solve this).

It says you're currently on a stock fuel system in your profile, but based on your post and the fact that you haven't said you're hitting fuel cut you probably have changed that by now. In this case, your car pulling timing makes even less sense because it's already seeing less than what's actually there. This indicates you're knocking fairly badly and/or base timing is off. Until your logger is there, why don't you check your base timing?

 

[Midnightride]

2gGSX, yea sorry I thought I had updated my profile.

I have 550s and a Denso 190 pump. I have also removed the side honeycombs. After some more tunning this weekend, I am doing better with the EGTs. I was running 18-20 psi on the 14b. We did a pull on the high way starting at say 3-4k rpms, did it to about 110 or 120 and shut it down. EGT were at 1650 and stayed there. We took fuel from lower rpms and added on top. Seem to have worked. We started of doing it by gear. Then worked our way up to WOT. We noticed negative numbers (timing)only when the car shifted. I guess thats normal.