I've got a goal in mind, but im so overwhelmed I dont know where to start

[Novablue454]

Im new to DSMs and basically 4 cylinders in general. Especially turbos. I am a crossover from the american muscle scene, so I have a pretty good knowledge of how to make power. The turo world is completely different though, and Im so overwhelmed by all of this I have no idea where to start.

First off, I have been reading through the turbo system tech forums, as well as the upgrade paths, and some other resources. The problem is, I have no idea which vendors are good, which to hide from, and so on.

My goal is around 450+ horsepower. It will be a daily driver, but beaten on the track quite often. Dont let the daily driver part hinder input though, as my other car is considered very unstreetable by most, but it doesnt bother me on the street at all. (468ci, 3500rpm stall, 4in dual exhaust, no heat/ac/power steering/power brakes, etc...)

Im assuming that making power with the 4G63 is at least basically relavant to making power with a v8 in regards to cams, displacement, etc..

So with all that said im thinking the best approach for me to take would be a 4.3 Stroker kit, Some cams that will rev to around 9k, and a 50 or 60 trim turbo. The problem is, I have no idea which turbo would be best suited for this application, what cams to get, or what engine internals are acceptable and can withstand the abuse. In the v8 world, eagle rods and ross or JE pistons are the way to go. From what i've read, Eagle makes rods, but I dont think that either of those manufacters make pistons.

I've been reading that most people are using wiseco pistons, however, I am weary of these. I've heard them referred to quite a bit as Siezeco because of their tendecy to seize. And fast. But all that info was from motorcycle people, and I dont know anyone personally running them in their cars.

Another thing im having trouble grasping is compression. In a NA car, you want to run the highest compression you can get away with. I have friends running 12.5:1 to 14:1 in their cars. I understand that in a Turbo application, you need to drop that down quite a bit, but my question is how much? Im assuming that for the power im looking for, 35psi+ will be required, so what compression would be optimal for this?

The next thing that then comes in to play is fuel and fuel delivery. Here in colorado I can only get 91 octane. I want to be able to run on pump gas. I already have a Walbro 255 and an Aeromotive FPR. Would these suffice? I was also under the influence that to run anything larger then 550s, you need a DSMlink. I already have an SAFC, and in the research i've done tonight, it seems that you can run up to 1000s with a keydivers chip. Is this correct, or would I be better off getting the DSMlink? I have no experience tuning, and would take it somewhere for the tune. What size injectors do you think would be needed?

Sorry that this ended up being so long, but im planning on beginning to order parts here pretty soon and dont want to be filling the corner of the garage with stuff that isnt going work and or wont work good together.

 

[dan2288]

you wont find a 4.3 stroker kit for a 4g63. The biggest kit you can get is a 2.3 or put in a 4g64 for a 2.4.

 

[Xeiros]

Both Ross and JE make pistons for DSM's.

Slowboy Racing makes a 2.3 Stroker kit that lets you choose (from their list) your set of rods and pistons. I didn't see eagle rods there, but there are some other notable names among the list. I think that stroker kit would be a fine way to reach your goal, or anything above 450 should you decide to go that route. Also the compresstion ratio for the Weisco pistons for that set are 8.8-1 which would be very good.

I've heard that having a very high compression ration on non NA cars can be bad for it's health in the long run. This is just what I've heard though.

 

[gsx rated98]

There are a few good vendors out there you can look into. Slowboy Racing, Forced Performance, ExtremePSI, and Buschur Racing. You will be able to find just about any and everything you will need at these sites for what your looking for.

As far as engine internals, going with an Eagle/Ross combo will be plenty for your goal. Its a proven combo to hold well over your goals. A good set of Cams to run would be HKS 272's or FP2's. You could go larger with HKS 280's or FP3s, but those hurt streetability.

Fuel A 255hp with rewire will be plenty for what your looking for, and id throw in atleast 750cc INJ, but prefer larger. With you only having 91oct available to you, id look into water/meth injection to help you out. 450(whp im assuming) is alot for 91 octain.

Obviously the 2nd biggest thing is the turbo. Everyone has a different opinion on what turbo to run. This has better spool, this has more top end ect ect... Forced Performace makes great turbos. Slowboy has some very nice turbo's on their page as well. A 60trim will put you in the range your looking for.

Finally and MOST important is tunning. This is actually the easy part in my opinion. DSMLink all the way. The link is VERY user friendly, and has taken many cars into 10s.

Your biggest problem with all this is going to be the 91oct. If you just run straight pump gas, you will have issues controling knock, so look out.

Also, if your going to want to rev up to or past 9k your going to want to look at rebuilding a tranny. Shep or TRE, they both have a top quality product. But the syncros in your stock tranny will not play nice much past 7500.

Hope this help. Some of the Wisemen will shed more light on this im sure.

 

[Novablue454]

wow. that was a typo. I meant 2.3. Not 4.3.

 

[Xeiros]

Hehe, yeah, that would be one HELLUVA stroker kit there.

 

[Locutus78]

My Eclipse is my daily driver. I have higher compression on my 2.3l stroker. I am running 10:1 Ross custom pistons on Eagle rods. I absolutly love my engine, the bottom end torque is great. One thing you will run into is with a stroker you don't want to continualy rev past 7000-7500 rpms, because the added length of the stroke will oval the cylinders. If you want to has the upper RPM's stay with the 2.0, but if you want higher RPM's go with a 2.1 deStroker.

You can see my setup in my profile. With the turbo gsx rated98 is right a 60 trim will put you there, just don't go any smaller than a 50 trim, unless you are going to be Road Racing. The strokers are just to air hungry for a smaller turbo. I had a EVOIII 16g and my boost fell off after 5000rpm, poor 16g just could not move enough air.

For fuel, again gsx rated98 is correct, and if you go DSMLink go ahead and get the 1000cc. They are the same cost, but you have a larger saftey margin, and more room to grow. DSMLink will make them run like a champ.

Tuning is the key with our cars, you can have all the best parts, but you can leave a lot on the table with tuning. A friend of mine at the DSM shop here in houston, had a quick 2g FWD with a 50 trim. He got DSMLink and we were able go get him almost 100hp, and still have "saftey" room. Link is not hard to lean, if you have some basic engine knowledge, and the DSMLink forum is a wealth of knowledge and help when needed!

You will also need to go with a built tranny. I have a Shep Stage 2 (FWD). A cruising budy of mine has a TRE. They are both great mechanicaly. I like the TRE customer service a whole lot better, and you can get a taller 5th gear (big ++).

You also need to find a 93 octane fuel station for daily driving, especially if you go high compression. The high compression setup is not as bad or hard as everyone likes to make it, but the tuning window has less room for errors. I am getting ready to re-tune with a new turbo that is being put on, but my old setup with the 16g I was running 93 octane, and up to 26psi and not getting any knock. The most knock I have seen is 3.4 counts, when I was going down the 1320 wrapped out 3rd and 4th, and ran a bit lean, EGT's got to 1000C. Thank God for SS valves. Hope this helps at all.

 

[topnotchgsx]

Coming from the V8 world, I know for a fact that you are gonna be torque hungry and the best way to satisfy that craving is by going with the stroker motor. Which you seem to already be planning on doing. I personnally prefer the 2.3L stroker over the 2.4L just because you can rev the 2.3L higher, but the 2.4L is the ultimate in to torque category. The 2.3L with still give you gobs of torque, but still let you rev a little bit. Thats why I went with it at least. I have the eagle rods and ross 9.1 pistons. I ordered them as a package from www.extremepsi.com for about $800. You have to specify that you want the "stroker" pistons though because they are different then the 2.0L pistons.

Big cams are always good and will definately gain some huge amounts of power for you. Since you apparently like to go big, coming from the V8 world I would personally reccommend the FP3X cams. (FP is short for Forced Perfomance. www.forcedperformance.com). Not only are they some of the most aggresive cams out there, they have a faster ramp speed, which opens the valve sooner and holds it open longer, and the best part is that they are designed for the stroker motor! And they are cheaper than the HKS units which would definately be my second choice.

As far as compression 9:1 seems to be pretty popular and is what I am running. 8:8.1 is very popular as well.

And I believe tuning has been pretty well covered. DSM are amazing vehicles and will suprise you. I think it will be a nice car for you coming from the V8 world. You wont be disapointed. And if you wanna see what they can do check out www.shepracing.com . It is every one on heres inspiration!


Keylan