Advice on blown head gasket

[mikeyo]

Ok, so i got a 95 talon tsi that i put a jdm engine with 25,000 miles in it. I bought it off ebay so i dont really know how many miles are on it exactly but it doesnt have much more than that if i were to guess. Anyways i overheated it and all the symptoms were that it had a bad head gasket cause all the antifreeze would go in the reserve when it got hot. I took it to my mechanic i goto who put the engine in the car and he says stuff about it leaking oil or burning oil and smoking!?!? This really pissed me off because i drove it around town some (my town population is like 400) and it never smoked!

he also said he couldnt change the head gasket cause he doesnt have the right angle torque wrenches. So anyways he told me he doesnt know about this engine and said its gonna give me alot of problems and that i should sell the car! So i call this legit car place and they said it'll cost 450-500 dollars to just get a problem diagnosis because its a japanese engine and they said to get rid of the car too. So could anybody give me some advice on what to do. I think these people are freaking crazy and incomprehendable because i see alot of people on these forums who can fix these cars up pretty cheaply and it would be retarded to sell it and then have to get some crappy car with 100,000+ miles on it.

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Changing out a HG isnt that hard, its not worth selling the car over, but buying something like an engine off ebay isnt that good of an idea because you cant be certain what your getting. Any competate shop can pull the head off this engine, my family's shop specializes in fords, and they pulled the head on mine very easily. I wouldn't go to those shops if I were you, any shop that is going to say sell the car, and charge 450$ to diagnos it because its an import engine its worth wasting your time with. Find a shop that is competant, just because the engine came from japan doesn't mean its harder, its still an engine.

Dustin

 

[mikeyo]

Yea well it was a good price for that engine like $1,800 and they only had 1 negative feedback in like 900+ engines. Yea these people are smoking something...I dont know about the smoking my guy (actually my parents friend somewhat) said it was doing though still, really pisses me off because it didnt have any of that before.

 

[DGajre777]

This is funny. The guy clearly states he doesn't know about your engine, says he can't fix it, and then tells you to sell your car. What a fricking idiot! Find another shop. Ask them if they have ever worked on a 4g63. If they don't know what a 4g63 is, that's enough info, walk away.

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

Speaking for myself. I cannot think of any other engine I would rather have. I've been around them so long. Perhaps this is the guy's way of saying he doesn't know anything about mechanics? Sounds like it to me. Sour grapes and all. First of all. How did you get it hot? The color of the smoke is also important. Blue is oil, white is water, and black is fuel. Look at your plugs. Do they look tan or are they oily? Can you smell anti freeze on them? Take a bore scope and look at your pistons through the spark plug holes. Does one look brand new and the others black? Any 'new' looking piston is a sign of water intrusion into that cylinder. Finally, here's an easy one. Do a compression test. If that turns up nothing then you can go to a parts house or a tool vendor and get a hydrocarbon test kit. It's a dye that when in the presence of hydrocarbons will turn from blue to yellow. One of these tests will find what you are looking for. If nothing else, find someone in your area that's also into DSM's and have them give you some assistance. Forget the "pro" who tells you to sell it. Tellhim to sell his. Or, get out of the business if he can't do any better than that.

I do this for a living. I would have absolutely no problem in pulling the head and having my local machine shop go through the head with a fine tooth comb. When it's done, you would have your car back. You would be a little lighter in the wallet, but your car would run.

Good Luck

 

[mikeyo]

Howd i get it hot? Ok that another issue, there must be an antifreeze leak somewhere thats very slow. Because i put new anticoolant in it and flushed the old stuff out and everything after the new engine was put in. I drove a little bit when it was hot but not much.

The plugs are very dirty and they smell like gasoline. That whole compartment were the plugs are at was very dirty also.

Also, my parents are pretty much sold on everybody elses opinion that the engine is going to keep on giving me problems. They said that i should fix up my 92 1.8l laser instead, even though its problems are way more severe. Im going to school now and dont have a job so if you could could convince them that its way more worth it to at the least put a new HG in this car and go from there, that would be very very helpful. They dont seem to get it i dont know what the heck their thinking, since this car has new tires, new clutch, good mileage on this engine, only like 79k or whatever on the car. Does have a few exerior things that need fixing up but yea......

 

[mikeyo]

oooh ok, i had my mom look if she could see smoke, revved it up the second time till about 4800 and she said she seen black smoke.

 

[fourreGsixty3]

http://www.dansmc.com/spoil.jpg Do they look anything like this? It is probably due to a very rich AF ratio. Are you by any chance venting your BOV? Because this would cause the rich condition.
EDIT: If it is black smoke then you are running rich.

Dustin

 

[mikeyo]

No they weren that gunky but still pretty gunky

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heres a pic of me engine

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I just have a stock BOV.

 

[mikeyo]

hmm from what this guy says on this page, the richness and smoke are normal?? http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239248&highlight=rich+af+ratio

 

[mikeyo]

So...do u guys think i just need to get new HG? I dunno im just kinda all confused now, thinking too much or something. Could the overheating cause other problems in the engine?

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

Like I said. Do some tests. We cannot see your engine. Rent or borrow an infrared no contact pyrometer. Compare it to your gauges. Black smoke is fuel. Don't just throw a bunch of symptoms into the wind and hope we will nail it for you. Help us help you. Do some tests. Do the compression test at least so we will have somewhere to start.

Good Luck

 

[chuckg]

I think I might be having a prob with my headgasket too. Im going to do a compression test soon so I'll know for sure. When i take off under boost (approx 16lbs) it sputters and smokes greyish/blue smoke and doesn't want to go anywhere. Could this be a headgasket problem?

 

[mikeyo]

eh, i dont have a compression tester, and no money. I wouldnt know anybody who has a pyrometer either. Sucks.......(living in longton)

Oh yea, my mom wanted to correct me, the shop that said it'd cost 450-500 for a diagnosis said its not because its a japanese motor its because it has a turbo?? whatever.....

 

[mikeyo]

Ok, so i talked to some guys in the auto class at votech and they said that since its been sitting so long, there would probably be water in my cylinders thats damaging them and i woudldnt be able to seat the rings. They said i would end up spending more money on it than the cars worth.

i dont know anymore....

 

[schemauer]

Reading your posts frustrates me a bit..........

You need to stop talking to people who have no clue about this engine - or engines in general and get some good advice. If you are not comfortable troubleshooting the engine on your own you need to find a REPUTABLE local shop THAT HAS EXPERIENCE WITH THESE ENGINES. Talk with your local DSM "old-timers" and find out what shops they would recommend. Better yet....see if someone local to you with experience with these engines will help you out for a few hours in diagnosing your problems. As was mentioned in some previous posts, there are specific tests and procedures that should be followed that would eliminate many of the possible things that this could be.

Some shops will quote you ridiculous prices because they aren't familiar with the engine and just don't want the work. Other shops have no idea how to work on your engine but will take the work and hope they can get through it. This engine isn't particularly difficult to work on if you've done it before, but I've already had my local dealership return one of my DSM's to me with the engine timed incorrectly after some warranty work. Luckily I check it before it became a problem...... so it can happen.

This will take time and money. If you have neither then you may have made a bad decision in the first place to buy the car and/or the engine.

 

[mikeyo]

your right after reading through it again, i see that i just need to do some of these tests. I'll ask those guys if they have a compression tester and bore scope i can borrow. If not, i have a lil bit of money and ill give it a compression check though it seems kinda redudant since the HG's blown, but they should read all equally low or whatever right? just as long as their equal i would think.

But yea, theres nobody that i know around here who wants to even take a look at it. I think there might be a decent place in bartlesville though.

And i was asking if they would put a new HG on, they were the teachers of that class and one of em said his daughter had a eclipse, peice of crap, etc...

 

[schemauer]

That's the standard response if you're not familiar with the engine. It's a great engine if treated properly.

At least do the compression check. The readings should all be within 10% to 20% of each other. Hopefully none less than about 125 psi. If the compression doesn't check out then you're looking at engine work that would mean removing the head. If it does check out then move on to a coolant system pressure test to see if you're blowing coolant past the head gasket. This is all work you can do with the proper tools and instruction, or get it to a shop that can do it.

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

I do understand that sometimes when I ask for a specific test that it may be difficult on your part to perform. That does not mean you should just give up. I like the other leaders on this site are looking for specific results. Much the same as If I had to diagnose it in my own shop. These sometimes are advanced tests which do not lend themselves easily to the average person. It may though point you in the direction of someone who could perform the tests to help you in finding your needed solution to a specific problem. Someone who wants to charge an arm and a leg just because it's Japanese, European, etc is usually lacking in the experience department and that's the only way they feel they can cme out on top with some kind of profit for their lack of experience. Calling it a piece of crap or such only shows that they know absolutely nothing about the car, much less care about having you as a good customer. Once again, in my humble opinion, these are wonderful cars. Very inexpensive to purchase, can be made into very volatile sleeper machines. Ask the guy with the Vette that got smoked by one of these little demons.

Anyway, Buy a cheap compression tester at your local parts house. Give us some numbers on your compression. Sometimes the parts houses will rent the tools and return your money when you return the tool. Check out your options.

Good Luck in your endeavours.

 

[mikeyo]

OK, i did a compression test and got two 145s, a 151 or so and about a 140. Not too shabby, you guys know of any good cheap torque wrenchs? I think i could probably do it myself, i'll just need help putting the hg on nice and tight.

 

[mikeyo]

so......am i right? , just needs a HG probably? and i meant like what type of torque wrench and crap would i want?