condition of engine

[want_a_gsx]

ok so i have 150, 0, 25, 75 compression. there is absolutely no smoke or coolant in the oil. all of my friends have told me that the rings are screwed, and from all the research i've done, i believe this is exactly what is going on.

now, the rings are messed up, so does that mean

- i have to replace the whole piston?

- what other parts will have to be replaced in the process of completing this kind of rebuild?

- could anything else be damaged in the engine, besides the rings?

- does the head also need to be replaced?

i bought this car less than 2 months ago and recently found out the engine is garbage. school is starting soon so i dont have any other option but to go for a rebuild. i'm thinking about getting a loan for about $1k, is that enough $ to get my engine up and running (parts + labor)?

 

[brute]

When you take the head off, you should be able to see if any cylinder walls are scratched or marred. If they are, you'll need to get the block bored. The head should be fine.

You can do a leakdown test (http://www.geocities.com/dsmgrrrl/FAQs/leakdown.htm) to determine exactly what the problem is.

 

[SkinnyBAM]

ok so i have 150, 0, 25, 75 compression. there is absolutely no smoke or coolant in the oil. all of my friends have told me that the rings are screwed, and from all the research i've done, i believe this is exactly what is going on.

now, the rings are messed up, so does that mean

- i have to replace the whole piston?

- what other parts will have to be replaced in the process of completing this kind of rebuild?

- could anything else be damaged in the engine, besides the rings?

- does the head also need to be replaced?

i bought this car less than 2 months ago and recently found out the engine is garbage. school is starting soon so i dont have any other option but to go for a rebuild. i'm thinking about getting a loan for about $1k, is that enough $ to get my engine up and running (parts + labor)?

Pull the head before you take out that loan so you know for sure what your going to be replacing.
No you dont need to replace the piston unless its damaged which will be obvious when you pull the head
If it is the rings you will need new rings and bearings, get a new headgasket, put in arp headstuds if you have the money. might as well replace all your belts....
But again pull your head and determine the problem before you buy ANYTHING

 

[SkinnyBAM]

sorry i didnt see you already had arps....you can re use those

 

[jumpfroggy]

you've done a compression check, but did you do the oil trick to see if it was the rings? read any compression howto, basically you put a tsp of oil in the bad cylinder, wait a bit, then do the test. If its the rings, the compression will get better due to the oil temporarilly sealing the gap. if not, could be valves or headgasket. Maybe you blew just the part between 2 cylinders, though doubtful since you don't have other symptoms.

Definitely figure out what's going on before you just start fixing stuff. can you get a local mechanic to diagnose it for cheap? That way you know for sure what you're getting into. good luck, man.

 

[brute]

Do the leakdown test or jumpfroggy's oil trick before anything!!

 

[want_a_gsx]

i've been trying to do the oil trick, but just haven't found the extension thing for the tool to remove the plugs. really low on money so i am trying to find a buddy that has one.

i'll do the compression test using oil asap.

estimate for rebuild if rings are shot(new pistons & rings, other parts, labor)?

 

[want_a_gsx]

i had the car running while the logger was hooked up. in tmo you can disable cylinders so thats exactly what i did. 1 cylinder made the engine run like crap, while another one made a small change on the performance. then i disabled the two cylinders left but nothing happened to the performance of the engine. it sounded normal, as if the engine was running with all 4 cylinders before i plugged in the logger. any ideas?

 

[jumpfroggy]

What extension are you waiting for? There's the spark plug socket, which is just a deep socket with some rubber to grip the plug, and there's the actual extension that reaches into the cylinder. Walmart sells a socket set that includes both for about $25. If you don't have a socket set and plan on doing *any* work on a car, you need sockets. They're cheap, they'll eventually break, but you'll have something at least.

If you just need the extension, you can buy that by itself for about $5-10. But yeah, so far you've confirmed that there's a problem in one or more of the cylinders, but why not just get the sockets/extensions and see what's going on?

 

[packinkimber45]

If you are going in there for rings, get the master rebuild kit. You might as well. It will include everything. Rings, pistons, bearings, all gaskets (if there is something I am missing, someone feel free to add to this). also if you're timing belt has not been changed you might as well do it, if you do you might as well change the water pump and oil pump. I found the master rebuild kit for like $500. If you just want to do a re-ring kit they are about half the price. Good luck with your car.

 

[JKL]

Hey, I'm in the same situation as you are. I recently bought a tsi awd and lately i been having a loud audible knocks. I dropped the oil pan and copper chunks everywhere. You'll have to find out exactly where you're losing compression. If your going for just to get it back on the road you should be able to w/1k limit but it may go bad quick. If you're spending that much i would get it done right the first time. No need to spend more money later after droppin a grand b/c it wasn't done right. take the head off and check for damages to the valves, seals, guide, etc. Drop the oil pan and look metal shavings. Take the block & head assembled to a machine shop to get checked if you're uncertain about what to look for.

 

[want_a_gsx]

bought extension and did a compression check and oil thing

Cyl Normal w/oil
1......120........150
2.......90.........120
3.......30..........40
4......135........165

how hard is it too take the head and oil pan off?

 

[brute]

Time for a rebuild! Buy a rebuild kit like this: http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=1088& Or, you can just take it to a machine shop and they can look at the block and see exactly what you need. They can even order it for you, and might be able to get a discount.

 

[jumpfroggy]

According to the compression guide...
http://www.dsmgrrrl.com/FAQs/compression.htm

Looks like 1, 2, 4 all got a consistent 30 psi gain with the oil. 164 should be stock, so they're low to begin with. Guide says >30psi gain with oil means it's probably worn rings, which I'd guess is probably true for you in this case. But #3 is so low, it's shot. Didn't seem to gain much with oil, so it probably has something else wrong as well. Bad valves? Whatever it is, you're probably in for a rebuild.

From the guide:
"take it to a garage that can perform a leak-down test to determine where the compression is escaping (intake, exhaust, crankcase, gasket, etc.)."

Sounds like fun. With that bad cylinder, I'd imagine you had some rough low-rpm (vibrating), maybe some hesitation when accelerating. Good luck.

 

[mitsugst97]

I had Cylinder 3 go on me,, tell ya what i wish i would have just got a new engine from the start. some how after the install of 4 new pistons and rings something got into the main bearing and scrathed them all to hell. so if you want to try to replace them, be careful.
i have some new pistons if you need em.. now i have to deal with the 6 bolt swap.. but once it's done it should rock..

 

[want_a_gsx]

yup, you guessed it...bad vibration when idling

how much $ to have block checked out to see whats wrong?

but yeah i'm thinking about just getting that rebuild from slowboy.
how much do you think it would be for labor to install all this?

also, what is up with all the "0ver" for bearing and the bores? more horsepower? http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=1088&

oh man i cant wait...hopefully after this damn rebuild/new motor, i can hit full boost before 5k, its gonna be awesome!!!

 

[jumpfroggy]

"over" bore means you machine your cylinders bigger to get more displacement. Two things determine displacement. 'Bore' is how wide the cylinders are, 'Stroke' is how far the pistons travel. A lot of people get their cylinders bored a bit over. if you're already doing the pistons, might as well spend a bit more and get a slightly bigger engine out of it. thats machine shop work though, cant DIY.

 

[want_a_gsx]

just wondering how much it would be, not including the parts ($500), to do all this work...

can i just buy an engine somewhere....with a warranty of some sort?

 

[jumpfroggy]

I'd actually look around for a replacement engine first. I don't know how much money the labor would be to redo the engine (start calling up local garages), but at $500 for parts + labor, I think you could find a replacement engine cheaper. The quality of that engine would be important, since you don't want to redo this step later.

But I've seen ads locally for a replacement 4g63 at $400 (supposedly just rebuilt), and I know someone was selling a fully built (rods, pistons, bored, decked) 6 bolt block for $1200. Somewhere in between you could find a replacement to drop in, vs. spending the money on labor. Just an option to consider.

Sorry I can't give any advice on cost. Anyone else want to chime in with estimated cost?

 

[want_a_gsx]

is it possible to just replace all the bearings and pistons/rings and get the cyl. honed?