2G Pulling Pistons, Honing block, need LOTS of help and opinions

[SkinnyBAM]

I have rust at the top of one of my cylinders so i need to pull my pistons and hone the cylinders before putting my head on. It also looks like one of the piston rings is a little rusted so if i pull them and it is, i will be replacing the rings and bearings.

I've never done anything like this before, or really any other engine work. The Chiltons manual i have doesn't seem to have anything about how to do this so i was wondering if anyone could give me a step by step on how to do this.

I would also like opinions on if i should even attempt to do this or if it might just be cheaper and more convenient to buy a new short block.

Any help, opinion or critizism would be greatly appreciated.
Oh and please, if your giving me help on how to do anything dont spare any details, thanks

 

[donmagicjuan]

SkinnyBAM,

You're asking for a step-by-step procedure for a rather involved process, but I'll give you a short overview here. If you want more details, search for "rering" in thread titles only and you should have some luck. You should also have a factory service manual in hand when performing this type of procedure.

You need to do what's commonly referred to as a rering. It basically consists of the following major steps:

-Pull the head (this is the hardest part - lucky for you it's already done)
-Remove the ridges from the tops of the cylinders with a ridge reamer
-Remove the oil pan
-Remove the rod bolts and push the pistons out of the top of the block
-Hone the cylinder walls
-Install new rings on the pistons
-Reassemble everything in the reverse order

This job may sound rather simple here, but it requires a lot of knowledge in the details. Torque specs/sequences, tolerances, and clearances must be strictly adhered to in order for the engine to last. Additionally, any parts reused must go back in the exact location/orientation from which they were removed.

You'll need to pick up a ridge reamer, a piston ring spreader, and a piston ring compressor if you don't have them already.

I'm not trying to intimidate you with this response; I just think you should be fully aware of what you're getting into. As long as you do a lot of homework, and you work slowly and carefully, you should be able to perform this without incident. Just let us know if you run into any problems along the way.

Good luck!

 

[SkinnyBAM]

SkinnyBAM,

You're asking for a step-by-step procedure for a rather involved process, but I'll give you a short overview here. If you want more details, search for "rering" in thread titles only and you should have some luck. You should also have a factory service manual in hand when performing this type of procedure.

You need to do what's commonly referred to as a rering. It basically consists of the following major steps:

-Pull the head (this is the hardest part - lucky for you it's already done)
-Remove the ridges from the tops of the cylinders with a ridge reamer
-Remove the oil pan
-Remove the rod bolts and push the pistons out of the top of the block
-Hone the cylinder walls
-Install new rings on the pistons
-Reassemble everything in the reverse order

This job may sound rather simple here, but it requires a lot of knowledge in the details. Torque specs/sequences, tolerances, and clearances must be strictly adhered to in order for the engine to last. Additionally, any parts reused must go back in the exact location/orientation from which they were removed.

You'll need to pick up a ridge reamer, a piston ring spreader, and a piston ring compressor if you don't have them already.

I'm not trying to intimidate you with this response; I just think you should be fully aware of what you're getting into. As long as you do a lot of homework, and you work slowly and carefully, you should be able to perform this without incident. Just let us know if you run into any problems along the way.

Good luck!

Thats exactly the kind of response i needed, i really appreciate it. So i can leave the block in the car while honing? And i dont need to remove the crank to pull the pistons correct? I have the factory service manual but its on cd and is not that helpful, ive been reading my chiltons and it is pretty helpful but i didnt see anything about this procedure. Im guessing those tools cost around 10-20 bucks a piece?

 

[90gst_sean]

BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THAT RIDGE REAMER!!!!

You don't want to take off more cylinder wall than is needed to get the rings and pistons out of the block, and you really really have to keep that reamer above the highest reach of the pistons top ring. If you follow the instructions you should be OK, but its real easy to take off more than you need with those things; especially your first time. You'll want a nice flat surface to help when reinstalling the new rings, you'll be OK ether way as long as you keep the reamer high in the bore. OK now this is going to make things sound more difficult than need but I want to be clear. Reaming is a two way street, you don't want to set the reamer to high ether. Doing so can cause the bottom edge of the guide plate to dig into your cylinder wall as you turn the device; not good ether.

If you decide to take the block to the machinist to be bored, you'll need new over sized pistons any way, in that case you can pull the old pistons with out reaming the block. If you brake a ring its no biggie; you've got new ones with the new pistons. Let the machinist take out the ridge.... Asking your machinists advice is a good idea too.

But my advice to you is to do EVERYTHING you can possibly afford at this time (i.e. machine shop) but if you decide to go the cheap rout, when your reaming the block and the instructions call for you to apply force on the reamer blade by twisting the blade screw three times; only twist it two times or even one time for the first cylinder and give that a try. You can always take off more metal if needed, but its a bi*** to but it back on.

REMEMBER, DO NOT SET THE REAMER LOWER THAN THE HIGHEST TRAVEL OF THE TOP RING IN ITS BORE!

-You can rent a reamer for $5 - $8 a day.
-If you leave the crank in, make sure its journals are spotless, I mean SPOTLESS when you reinstall you rods.
-You should get ARP head studs.
-I have both Chilton and Haynes, I only look to the Chilton for a torque spec here and there. You should defiantly pick up a Haynes manual, its worth it and is that much better in my opinion.

Let me know how things go, I'd be more than happy to help. I just got done doing almost the same thing and would like to hear about your experience.
Good luck, Sean

 

[SkinnyBAM]

BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THAT RIDGE REAMER!!!!

You don't want to take off more cylinder wall than is needed to get the rings and pistons out of the block, and you really really have to keep that reamer above the highest reach of the pistons top ring. If you follow the instructions you should be OK, but its real easy to take off more than you need with those things; especially your first time. You'll want a nice flat surface to help when reinstalling the new rings, you'll be OK ether way as long as you keep the reamer high in the bore. OK now this is going to make things sound more difficult than need but I want to be clear. Reaming is a two way street, you don't want to set the reamer to high ether. Doing so can cause the bottom edge of the guide plate to dig into your cylinder wall as you turn the device; not good ether.

If you decide to take the block to the machinist to be bored, you'll need new over sized pistons any way, in that case you can pull the old pistons with out reaming the block. If you brake a ring its no biggie; you've got new ones with the new pistons. Let the machinist take out the ridge.... Asking your machinists advice is a good idea too.

But my advice to you is to do EVERYTHING you can possibly afford at this time (i.e. machine shop) but if you decide to go the cheap rout, when your reaming the block and the instructions call for you to apply force on the reamer blade by twisting the blade screw three times; only twist it two times or even one time for the first cylinder and give that a try. You can always take off more metal if needed, but its a bi*** to but it back on.

REMEMBERO, DO NT SET THE REAMER LOWER THAN THE HIGHEST TRAVEL OF THE TOP RING IN ITS BORE!

-You can rent a reamer for $5 - $8 a day.
-If you leave the crank in, make sure its journals are spotless, I mean SPOTLESS when you reinstall you rods.
-You should get ARP head studs.
-I have both Chilton and Haynes, I only look to the Chilton for a torque spec here and there. You should defiantly pick up a Haynes manual, its worth it and is that much better in my opinion.

Let me know how things go, I'd be more than happy to help. I just got done doing almost the same thing and would like to hear about your experience.
Good luck, Sean

Thanks for the advice...did you just use your manuals to do the job or have you had prior experience?

 

[90gst_sean]

Just the two manuals and DSMTUNERS (aka the best thing to happen to DSM's sense the EVO).

I'm almost done with the rebuild. I must admit not everything went according to plan, but I'd have to say its has been pretty damn impressive over all.

Take a look at my thread started last night:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238307

Just take your time is the best advice anyone could give you.

Later skinny, Sean.

 

[donmagicjuan]

You'll be able to perform it with the block in the car if you hone the cylinders yourself. You should be able to rent a hone from an auto parts store. Again, make sure you know what you're doing before proceeding with that step.

Since this sounds like your first engine break-in, here's a good link to a method that's gaining a lot of respect over the manufacturer's recommended "easy" method. http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
It's very important to get the new rings to seat within the first several miles. If after a hundred miles or so you don't have adequate compression, you'll just be doing this all over again.

P.S. Good post, Sean. Thanks for the extra words of caution from a first-hand experience.
Seattle, huh? I'm over there a lot; maybe I'll run into you sometime.

 

[SkinnyBAM]

You'll be able to perform it with the block in the car if you hone the cylinders yourself. You should be able to rent a hone from an auto parts store. Again, make sure you know what you're doing before proceeding with that step.

Since this sounds like your first engine break-in, here's a good link to a method that's gaining a lot of respect over the manufacturer's recommended "easy" method. http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
It's very important to get the new rings to seal within the first several miles. If after a hundred miles or so you don't have adequate compression, you'll just be doing this all over again.

P.S. Good post, Sean. Thanks for the extra words of caution from a first-hand experience.
Seattle, huh? I'm over there a lot; maybe I'll run into you sometime.

Well i bought one of those 3 stone hones from checker for like 23 bucks, but ive read that the ball hone is better because the 3 stone leaves a rougher finish...any thoughts?

I actually found that a link a little while ago on some other thread which made me very happy, ive had this car for about a year now and am finally starting to work on it and when i realized i had to rering it i thought i was going to have to wait even longer to feel the power of these dsm's...


Oh btw i just got my arps in the mail, just thought id share

 

[donmagicjuan]

The stone one should work fine. Here's a thread with more info that goes into greater detail on the techniques. Enjoy! http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208533&highlight=hone

 

[SkinnyBAM]

I was messing around under the hood and took another look at the rust and decided to try something before going through all the work i was talking about earlier.

I went to checker, got some 600 grit sand paper and started going at the rust, ten minutes later it was gone and the cylinder looks and feels just as smooth as the others! I know some of you will criticize me for going to the cheap route but as it being my car i am going to try it, if it smokes and the compression is bad then i will admit that all of you were right but i am going to take the chance.

Just thought i would let you guys know and i will give you guys updates when i get the head on...thanks all the help

i do have a couple questions. If the pistons have little marks where the valves hit do i need to do anything about these.
And also, how can i clean the carbon off the top of them

 

[95GSXCO]

as long as the marks are not over the edge of the piston it will do no harm. as for the carbon if you have a compressor and a air grinder just get some scuff pads for it and use light pressure and it will make them almost like new.

 

[BigTree]

Actaully in apprenticeship school we leant that if depending on how the gashes in the piston look, if there are little chunks on the top of the piston (still atached but hanging there sort of) there is a chance it could become a "hot spot" when you get the car going and possibily break off the piston and be free in your cylinder. I dont know if this could happen or does happen, but was taught to be warry of it.

 

[SkinnyBAM]

Actaully in apprenticeship school we leant that if depending on how the gashes in the piston look, if there are little chunks on the top of the piston (still atached but hanging there sort of) there is a chance it could become a "hot spot" when you get the car going and possibily break off the piston and be free in your cylinder. I dont know if this could happen or does happen, but was taught to be warry of it.

that makes sense..but i dont think there that bad, once i get home ill put a picture of them up

 

[SkinnyBAM]

Heres that picture...

 

[SkinnyBAM]

if i do decide to take out the scuff marks whats the best way to do it?