AC and PS removal

[eldiabloz13]

First off why do people remove these 2 items. Now i can see why on AC but why PS. Its so weird. What are the gains of doing this. How hard is it to take these out and the lines.

 

[greengoblin]

Why do most people do it? Some because their is broken and manual racks really don't break others won't that 1hp gain and some want les thing to go wrong and a cleaner engine bay. A staight Drag car also would have know nedd for one and I'mn sure there are evn more reason so some one fell free to add if you like. The same can be applyed to the A/C.

 

[grnchevyz]

The hp gains of removing AC is so little imho that it's not worth it. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong but we're talking 3-5 crank horses more without AC.

 

[pnishr]

Having removed both of these, I'll explain.

1. The admittedly miniscule power gain of 5ish HP.
2. A MUCH cleaner engine bay on the drivers side. I'll take some pics for you tomorrow.
3. The weight. It may not seem like much, but the COMPLETE HVAC system is over 50lbs. The total weight of the power steering with the bracket is probably about 8-9lbs
4. Don't need 'em in a race car.
5. And my last reason for the power-steering: got rid of that annoying-ass squeal that my PS pump bearing was making.

Now, the down-side is I try not to drive at noon in TX., and I've gotta have the windows down. but, that's not so bad. The steering issue is GROSSLY over-stated by people. It just takes a bit of getting used to. It's fine unless you're parellel parking, in which case, call in your guns and turn that SOB (just man-up). It's a personal preference thing. I'd rather be lighter with 5 more hp and stronger arms, than not.

Edit: Oh, yeah, and all that weight is from the front of the car, where it'd be best to lose some.

 

[mjarrell20]

To me it's not worth it but they are nice things to get rid of if you're looking for that edge over the next guy.

 

[vwtuner]

for everyday no way but on a race car id get rid of it

 

[bmwisthekey]

well if your fwd it doesnt hurt to have some weight in the front end

 

[eldiabloz13]

Na im AWD. I hear ya on that squealing also. It sucks. Yeh when i do my rebuild im debating removing these. But when i do that im going to sell my GS for a street bike.

 

[10minutequarter]

Bumping threads is a no-no here

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[jumpfroggy]

I had a civic someone had ebay-turboed (yeah, it blew up) and had removed AC and PS. Another reason the guy told me is that some guys like to get rid of the PS for a better steering feel. I actually liked the non-PS on the highway, it's definitely a more solid feel and is just like a firm PS car. However, once you hit 5mph it's like someone is grabbing your steering wheel and you have to fight them. But hey, if you're only going to hit 5mph once in the whole race, who cares.

It's like stripped interiors. Gives you a little edge weight wise, makes things cleaner, you don't need it in a race car anyway. But for me, I can't wait to fix my AC and be able to be comfortable in my daily driver.

I've heard a lot about racers preferring manual racks for a good steering feel. Not a PS rack without the pump, but a replacement manual rack. Never felt one myself, but I hate it when I stall out and my steering wheel goes dead for a second.

 

[92awddsm]

I removed the ac because it didnt work, I dont need it, it saves weight, and makes room for mounting my alternator there when I take the time to make brackets.

My ps was removed for more room, less weight, cleaner engine bay, and a cleaner, longer lasting alternator. I hardly ever drive my car on the street so it isnt a necessity.

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[fourreGsixty3]

Taking all the ac pieces out, will save you a lot of weight, and it will take the ac condessor out so you rad gets direct air hitting it long as you dont have a FMIC. The PS is for drag cars, so the wheel isnt going all over the place and it stays straight a little easier, the only con that I had with out PS( serpintine belt broke) is that I couldnt make the U-turn to get to work, so I had to go an extra 5 minutes around to avoid it, it was just a little too tight of a turn. They both clean up the engine bay of hoses, and the PS res/pump.

 

[slugsgomoo]

the manual steering would suck for an autocrosser, because it is slower and requires more effort. In road racing, I don't think it would be an issue, simply from my experience carving up some of the local canyons.

The steering is more linear, doesn't change the amount of assist on you (thank god) and feels way better on the highway. It is a major PITA for parallel parking, and I don't do it often anymore, unless I can't help it.

On the galant I'm eliminating the A/C but keeping power steering, and on the talon it's the opposite. Yeah, weird, I know.

 

[eldiabloz13]

Does anyone get torque steer? i get that on my 97 GS and im sure i will on my TSI. Now deleting the PS will stop this right? Now i was thinking of taking these 2 out for racing and looks of the bay. It is really worth the work. How much more work is it when the engine is actually out of the car. Im nto worried about heat either thats what the bike is for . Now in the winter will the heat still be just as good, ya know like removing the AC dosent mess with the heat either does it.

 

[92awddsm]

ok bumping a thread?WTF are you talking about Now who are YOU to tell me whats a no-no here. I know the rules and was merely stateing what my future plans are.Also stop that stupid 5,4,3,2,1 thing.Your wasteing thread space. .

Calm down. He wasnt talking about you, it was directed towards another member that was banned earlier today that had bumped over 20 threads. The bump post was deleted when the member was banned so evidently, you didnt see it.

 

[eldiabloz13]

lovelyyy.....its weird how that works

 

[pnishr]

Taking all the ac pieces out, will save you a lot of weight, and it will take the ac condessor out so you rad gets direct air hitting it long as you dont have a FMIC. The PS is for drag cars, so the wheel isnt going all over the place and it stays straight a little easier, the only con that I had with out PS( serpintine belt broke) is that I couldnt make the U-turn to get to work, so I had to go an extra 5 minutes around to avoid it, it was just a little too tight of a turn. They both clean up the engine bay of hoses, and the PS res/pump.

Yeah, I totally forgot the whole more air to the radiator thing... good call.

Why can't you make a U-turn??? You just gotta crank it over and give it some gas. Maybe it's more difficult with FWD because of some understeer under throttle. I've got my rear end where I can break free under accel, so I can U-turn just as quick, but it takes more forearm for sure.

I can see how auto-X might suck, cause it's so slow/tight. But as slugsgomoo said, road-race shouldn't be an issue. It's so much faster. This is NOT just a drag-racing thing. I don't have a manual rack (granted, only because I don't know of one that will drop in like on the 1g), but I don't think it's much harder than other cars I've owned with no P/S from the factory. And this car is much heavier. By the time you take off a few hundred lbs, it's a non-issue.

 

[1990talon]

I have no PS or A/C it makes a huge difference in looks and how it is to steers it I would say is hard at a slow speed but i can still parallel park in like 5 seconds you just get used to it and I would say that it is a much better feel while you are conering. The A/C part I dont mind but I live in washington so I just roll the windows down. So I would say it was a good choice just because I like the look and the feel but it all depends what you want to do with the car and personal preferance.

 

[jumpfroggy]

Does anyone get torque steer? i get that on my 97 GS and im sure i will on my TSI. Now deleting the PS will stop this right? Now i was thinking of taking these 2 out for racing and looks of the bay. It is really worth the work. How much more work is it when the engine is actually out of the car. Im nto worried about heat either thats what the bike is for . Now in the winter will the heat still be just as good, ya know like removing the AC dosent mess with the heat either does it.

I think torque steer is a result of the open front differential. Usually people recommend a limited-slip differential if you want to get rid of that. I have a kaaz clutch-type in mine, no torque steer at all (which is awesome). I think the PS just gets squirrely, tries to over assist so it feels like someone keeps pushing the wheel a bit to the left or right on the highway, but I don't know about during launches.

Can someone confirm this?

 

[92awddsm]

I think torque steer is a result of the open front differential. Usually people recommend a limited-slip differential if you want to get rid of that. I have a kaaz clutch-type in mine, no torque steer at all (which is awesome). I think the PS just gets squirrely, tries to over assist so it feels like someone keeps pushing the wheel a bit to the left or right on the highway, but I don't know about during launches.

Can someone confirm this?

Actually torque steer is a result of unequal axle lengths in all the fwd's. If you look at a gst and 1g n/t, the driver side axle is a fair amount longer than the passenger side. On the 2g n/t, the passenger side axle is the longer axle. Good news for 1g gst owners is that they can get the equal lenth driver side axle and jackshaft from a similar year awd and remedy their tourque steer issues. Im not sure if the same is possible on the 2g but Im sure someone here knows. All awd's came with equal length front axles and dont have the torque steer issues that the fwds do.

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~ksmith3289/faq/halfshaft/dsmawdhalfshaftswap.html

 

[jumpfroggy]

Ahh, I was just under the car changing the oil and checking the CV boots (since the joints have started clicking under full-steer), and I noticed how different the axle lengths are. Makes sense. So equal length axles eliminate torque steer? How about my 2g with LSD... does it solve the same problem?

 

[10minutequarter]

Calm down. He wasnt talking about you, it was directed towards another member that was banned earlier today that had bumped over 20 threads. The bump post was deleted when the member was banned so evidently, you didnt see it.

Yeah I wasn't directing toward you. That guy that kept bumping threads that weren't even his was pissing me off.

 

[92awddsm]

Ahh, I was just under the car changing the oil and checking the CV boots (since the joints have started clicking under full-steer), and I noticed how different the axle lengths are. Makes sense. So equal length axles eliminate torque steer? How about my 2g with LSD... does it solve the same problem?

The lsd helps but it doesnt solve the problem. The axles have a certain degree of flex and twist to them. The longer axle will twist and flex more than the short axle so it actually takes the long axle longer to respond to input than the short axle. And given the length difference, this equally changes axle angle from cv joint to cv joint. These two factors are the biggest cause to torque steer. An lsd lessens the overall effect but it is still there.

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Yeah, I totally forgot the whole more air to the radiator thing... good call.

Why can't you make a U-turn??? You just gotta crank it over and give it some gas. Maybe it's more difficult with FWD because of some understeer under throttle. I've got my rear end where I can break free under accel, so I can U-turn just as quick, but it takes more forearm for sure.

I can see how auto-X might suck, cause it's so slow/tight. But as slugsgomoo said, road-race shouldn't be an issue. It's so much faster. This is NOT just a drag-racing thing. I don't have a manual rack (granted, only because I don't know of one that will drop in like on the 1g), but I don't think it's much harder than other cars I've owned with no P/S from the factory. And this car is much heavier. By the time you take off a few hundred lbs, it's a non-issue.

Well its a little too to U-turn, it will come really close to the curb, and I dont want to curb my 1g refurbed swirlies, and there was way too much traffic so I just played it safe I went a little out of my way. Yeah i know its not just a dragging thing but I figured that would be the easiest way to grasp what we were talking about. Nice bit of info 92awddsm didnt know that taking a driverside axle from an awd would help that. Taking out the ac and ps definately makes the bay clean looking...mines super clean looking only wiring harness, clutch and brake lines with res's, and cruise control throttle... Just pulled tranny and engine, to make it super clean in the engine bay, fully rebuilt engine/tranny, and a paint job

Dustin

 

[98eclipseRS]

For what its worth me and some friends decided to do a test and see how much of a difference PS makes power wise(the car already had no AC). What we did was pull the belt of and dyno the car, we then put the belt back on and dynoed again. I was suprised to say the least when I saw a 15WHP difference between the two.