[RESOLVED] Timingbelt Falling Apart [Merged 8-8] groove cut short bolt bolts

[Niknuk]

Well, after putting some white-out on the tbelt where the groove is, after about 200 miles it gets worn away meaning whatever put that groove into the belt is still touching it. It took about 12k miles to get a groove worn about 1/8th of an inch deep. The steel threads are "just" starting to show through. Obviously its time to change the tbelt. I was just wondering if anyone has heard of anything like this. It has to be something barely touching the belt to make it worn like that. Theres never any smell and the groove is no hotter (from friction) than any other spot. Should I do a full tbelt change and replace EVERYTHING or just the belt itself since everything was done 12k ago?

Oh yeah, is there anything else performance wise that I should do while i'm in there?

 

[2-0turbo]

Did you recently remove your oil pan? There are two short bolts that are supposed to go in front so they don't touch the timing belt. If you didn't put them in there, the incorrect "too long" bolts will wear a groove. Thats my guess without seeing a picture.

 

[KenTSIII]

That's one possibility... & the other is that the backing plate that seperates the Tbelt from the Bbelt was installed backwards. That & the problem listed above are the 2 most common causes of the groove worn in your Tbelt.

 

[Niknuk]

i honestly wouldn't know the answer to either of those two questions, as I just bought the car a few weeks ago. The Bbelt plate being on backwards seems to me the most likely answer as whatever is grooving the belt is doing it hella slow, as if it were softer than metal. Thanks for the answers guys, now at least I have an idea of what to look for.

 

[KenTSIII]

The more that I think about it.. it almost has to be the oil pan bolts to be a groove. The backing plate being backwards eats off the engine side of the belt.. not really a groove. Pull the 2 oil pan bolts directly under the crank sprocket.. I bet that one of them (at least) is longer than it's supposed to be.

 

[Niknuk]

Yeah I'll do that today. I've never pulled any oil pan bolts before, am I going to get oil in my face taking off two of them? The groove is on the engine side, about a millimeter in and then a 1/4 inch wide groove that is about 1/8" deep. Either way, I gotta replace the belt, at least now I know what to look for.

 

[2-0turbo]

Originally posted by Niknuk
Yeah I'll do that today. I've never pulled any oil pan bolts before, am I going to get oil in my face taking off two of them? The groove is on the engine side, about a millimeter in and then a 1/4 inch wide groove that is about 1/8" deep. Either way, I gotta replace the belt, at least now I know what to look for.

No. Unless the bottom of your engine is coated and it happens to drip on your face.

 

[Niknuk]

I pulled off the bolts on the belt side of the oil pan and none of them looked as if they were touching the belt. (they still had the seal gunk on them and weren't shiny as if from rubbing) I pulled two bolts from other parts of the pan and they were all the same size. they all looked pretty small so unless the ones by the belt are REALLY small, I doubt they are what is doing it. I'll let you guys know what I find once my replacement belt arrives and I make the change.

 

[KenTSIII]

Sounds like the 2 shorter bolts are installed somewhere else in the pan.. cuz the 2 under the crank sprocket are about 1/2 the size of the rest of them.

 

[GSXlaunch]

I just got done with the balance shaft emlimination kit...put the motor back in the car and somehow just came across this http://www.vallotton.com/engineremovalb.asp near the bottom it says that there are two bolts that are shorter than all the rest on the oil pan under the oil pump gear. It says if these arent installed where they came off the longer bolts will tear the timing belt. I went by the balance shaft elim on vfaq and had the chiltons manual handy and neither mentioned anything about this. Is this true? If so, I did not pay attention to the bolt lengths when reinstalling the oil pan. Can someone tell me what length those two bolts are? I will get some new ones to replace the other two. Thanks fellas...

TT

 

[My96AWD]

yes it is true. it will eat your timing belt. seen it in person.

 

[GSXlaunch]

ok...so I need two shorter bolts in there. Cool...thanks for responding.

 

[V8HAHA]

I stripped 7 or 8 of the oil pan bolts. My plan is to rethread them to 9mm, or whatever one size bigger than what they are is. My question is this, how would you go about fixing this? Is there an easier way?

 

[DevilSperm]

how the hell? i dont have an answer, i think itll be hard to tap cast though..

 

[half-cocked]

What about using a helicoil?

 

[kurtiman]

I'd use helicoil's, its not much more work than tapping it to a larger bolt and it keeps all the bolts the same size

 

[kristmen]

Can I ask how you managed to strip those bolts?

Of all bolts those being around the oil pan and most likely covered with crap should come out EASY.

Seriously, not laughing but I'd really like to know how you did that. Please tell.

 

[V8HAHA]

Ok well first off, I don't claim to be all-knowing or anything, I am still a beginner and am still making and learning from my mistakes. I think the best way to learn how to do something is get your hands dirty and do it yourself. So I tore my new JDM engine apart and am in the process of doing a rebuild. On that note, my grandpa's garage has every tool I could think of using, along with the ones I don't know how to use very well, and consequently I use them without "common" knowledge. I was using his small impact gun to put the oil pan bolts in. And before I realized what it was doing, I had already stripped a lot of them. Lesson learned, and it's not going to happen again. Now about fixing them with a helicoil, I don't know what a helicoil is. Can someone describe one? Or even better post a picture and possibly some info how to use one. I am gunna browse the net and see what I can come up with about them. Thanks a lot guys.

 

[kurtiman]

Ok well first off, I don't claim to be all-knowing or anything, I am still a beginner and am still making and learning from my mistakes. I think the best way to learn how to do something is get your hands dirty and do it yourself. So I tore my new JDM engine apart and am in the process of doing a rebuild. On that note, my grandpa's garage has every tool I could think of using, along with the ones I don't know how to use very well, and consequently I use them without "common" knowledge. I was using his small impact gun to put the oil pan bolts in. And before I realized what it was doing, I had already stripped a lot of them. Lesson learned, and it's not going to happen again. Now about fixing them with a helicoil, I don't know what a helicoil is. Can someone describe one? Or even better post a picture and possibly some info how to use one. I am gunna browse the net and see what I can come up with about them. Thanks a lot guys.

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helicoil kits from NAPA

thats where I got mine

Basically your making a big hole, then tapping it, next you insert what looks like a spring with the included tool. The inside of the "spring" should be the size you desire. Really it’s pretty easy as long as you can drill straight and make sure you use some sort of cutting compound on the tap.

 

[kristmen]

Ahhh ok. Ya you shouldnt use an impact on bolts like that. Hell I dont even use an impact on lug nuts. Only place I really use them is on CV shafts.

Ok I just wondered. I had never heard of anyone breaking that many oil pan bolts.

That sucks. Also yes use the helicoils.

Just wondered.

 

[DiabloRT]

Helicoil for sure

 

[FourG63GST]

you used an impact to put ur oilpan bolts back in???

 

[DSM_AWD_TSi]

How to take off oil pan with the engine in the car? Is that possible? Any instructions online? I got the Chilton manual, it's a POS! Thanks.

 

[markmakeitso]

It's possible to take off the oil pan with the engine in, but it takes a bit of work. The downpipe needs to come off, but it might be easier to take the whole exhaust off. Transfer case also needs to come out, but the driveshaft can stay in. I think the Haynes manual says the intermediate shaft needs to come out also, but I didn't need to remove mine. It's been awhile since I removed my pan and I don't have the car handyright now, but that's the only major stuff AFAIK. I'd figure a couple hours with air tools and a fairly rust free exhaust. If you're like me and do it by hand in a gravel driveway figure 4 or 5 hours (plus a couple breaks for malted inspiration). Make sure you support the car with as much room underneath as possible, because fitting the pan back in around the shaft and oil pickup is a little tricky.

Hope that helps.
Mark

 

[DSM_AWD_TSi]

I just want to get as much info as possible first. Do I need any special tool? Did you take any pictures when you remove the oil pan? Thanks.