Car really slow for mods?? guys tell me what is up ... !!

[dohcGST]

Hey guys, well i had a dsm for a while then got rid of it, and then came back

well here is the new car that i got, due to a guy inpregnating his wife..

FS 98 Black Eagle Talon TSi
5 spd. Gray Leather, sunroof
69,2xx miles
mods:
Big 16g turbo
Spearco FMIC
APEXi N1 down pipe
APEXi N1 exhaust
TurboXS HP manual boost controller
ACT 2100 Clutch
Walbro 190LPH
FIC 650cc Injectors
Dsmchips.com Stage 3 95 eprom ecu
Apexi AFC
HKS turbo timer Type 1
Autometer carbon fiber boost, egt, a/f gauges
B&M short throw shifter
magnacore spark plug wires
Pioneer 7200 cd player
front & rear Freedom strut tower braces
Injen intake
1g bov
ported O2 housing
20 lbs boost

well i dont know if it just isnt tuned or something, (by the way the SAFC is zeroed out) but the car just doesnt seem to be fast.... i mean yeah torquey as hell, but i just seemed that it would be faster for the mods..

i have raced a type r, the guy said he only had an exhaust on it... but i only pulled him by a car length, and we raced plenty of times... i was like alright.. but i was like dam i thought i should pull him by alot more

Then tonight i raced (to test out the car) a 2002 mustang GT, this car is high 13 second... well at 15 he edged away... then i turned it up to 20 and stayed only about even...

i dont know guys, do i need to tune or what? please help me go in the right direction... it just seems like it should be faster... and by the way also the turbo isnt falling off

thanks Chase

 

[andymoraitis]

Chase,

Having been through this myself, the tuning issue sticks out like a sore thumb. Follow me along here:

Your chipped EPROM is set with a 9.5:1 A/F ratio and 16 degrees of max timing. Jeff does this to keep the motor safe. You can try running more boost, but the car won't feel any faster since the motor's drowning in fuel. There are two things you can do.

1. Lean out the AFC by around 10% and look for knock on the stock boost gauge if Jeff enabled your boost gauge to read knock. If you still don't see knock, keep leaning until you hit about five counts at the top of third and then richen it a couple of percent to limit knock to no more than 3 counts at the top of third. In the process of leaning out, you'll add more timing and lean out the A/F which would make a measurable difference in power.

2. Leave the AFC at zero and have Jeff burn you a new chip with an 11.5:1 air/fuel ratio map and 19-20 degrees of timing advance. This will basically do the same thing as leaning out with the AFC, but it'll all be controlled by the chip instead of having to tweak. If you still don't see knock at 20 psi on pump with the new chip, add boost until you see the five counts I mentioned above and then back it down 1 psi until you get three.

In simple terms, unless you either lean it out through the AFC (easier since you have it already) and get some more timing, you'll never see the performance you're looking for. Just be careful and take it in small steps so as to not harm the motor.

Hope that helps,

Andy

 

[dohcGST]

awesome reply.... i vote it for one of the best ever........

ok, well i have access to a local dyno tuner shop in the area, mostly involved in honda performance.. i used to go there alot when i had my turbo gsr...

well i dont really know how to lean out the AFC, nor do i know how to read knock clearly... and yes it is chipped to read knock on the stock boost gauge..

Should i take it to the dyno to get it tuned? should i attempt to tune it myself?

If i get the new chip from that guy will it still be safe? i mean i am looking for safety alot also, but would like to bump up the performance..

 

[ddavisaf]

I'm not going to even read this thread. But I did see Andy's name so whatever he says, listen to him. He's an extremely valuable resource to have

 

[dohcGST]

yes, he really seems to be, and i just really need to figure out this problem

 

[ddavisaf]

You have a setting on your AFC for fuel trims. It will be in %. In order to lean out your trims, adjust the % to the negative. Do this a little bit at a time and watch your knock gauge. Continue to lean it out until you see your gauge hit 5 counts of knock at the top of 3rd gear. Once you see this happen, richen up the fuel trim % on your AFC a little bit. You want to set it at about 3 counts of knock at the top of third. Burning the new chip will make it easier for you if you're uncomfortable with adjusting it yourself. And also keep in mind, you can't beat a dyno tune.

 

[andymoraitis]

Thanks for the vote of confidence guys. I kind of feel Chase's pain because I've been in the same boat (except I didn't have and still don't have an AFC to tune with). As it stands, the chip you have will give you about 90% of what you need, unless it's custom tailored to your needs like mine is (A/F and timing wise).

If you're not comfortable tuning an AFC, it is likely best to take the car to a dyno and have a professional tune it for you. On the other hand, a chip upgrade is inexpensive and quick. All you would need to do is e-mail Jeff and have him upgrade your chip with the following settings:

11.5:1 Air/fuel ratio
21 degrees timing advance

Because you have a great setup with supporting mods (fuel and intercooler wise) 21 degrees will be fine on pump gas. I run 23 advance with an 11.7:1 air/fuel at 20 psi and even without an FMIC I only see 3 counts of knock. With race gas, I can step that up to 23-24 psi an really make some power. Also make sure that he's enabled the knock sum boost gauge feature so you can read your knock. For reference, please have a look at a recent thread that will teach you a bit about the relationship between A/F timing and boost.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1658205#post1658205

With a chip change only, it'll feel like an entirely new car and you can STILL take it to have it dyno tuned afterwards if you like. Whatever you decide, I want you to be comfortable with your decision. Having walked in your shoes, I can guarantee that she's just too rich to make any real power and that once you add some timing and a leaner air/fuel ratio, it'll be night and day.

Drop me a line if there's anything else I can do to help,

Andy