starts but not for long.

Chill Kill Kult · 06-25-2012, 10:54 PM

Car is driving me up a wall. well, I wish it would. cranks over, runs perfect for about 20 seconds then bogs out and dies.

when it's running it charges at 14 volts, and runs perfect. I ran it up to about 3-3.5 k rpms with no problem. Then it dies out, and for about 30 seconds to a minute after will not start - only crank. after that, it's the same. Starts up fine, runs perfect for about 20 seconds.

when it dies out power to the fuel pump cuts out, so I ran a wire w/ switch from battery positive to the black (white trace) wire at the pump. I was even able to borrow the $100 fuel pump relay from a parts store. neither of which changed anything.

I took the CAS off and noticed it had a bit more than usual play on the shaft so I changed out for a new piece. still have the same problem.

Car is a '90 Eagle Talon TSi AWD turbo. no mods, aside from k&n filter.

Ikeelyou · 06-26-2012, 08:28 AM

An idea, try adding an additional ground to thr fuel pump circuit. See this page to see a simiular issue i diagnosed and repaired 1993 Nissan Sentra - All about cars - Coldwater MI

Gst to the max · 06-26-2012, 10:32 AM

check the crank shaft position sensor. I had a 2g talon that would do the same thing it would run i cud drive it but not even at 10th of a mile, and it would die and not start back up for a little while.

Chill Kill Kult · 06-28-2012, 09:48 PM

No dice on the additional ground.

Pretty sure the Camshaft Angle Sensor functions as both cam & crank sensors. I'm not totally sure though. I just got the car like 6mos ago.

I've been kind of busy lately, so the car stuff is even more frustrating. Strange thing the other day, I pulled the battery to charge it and the car sat without a battery for almost 24 hours.

when I connected the battery, I fired the car up and it ran great for nearly 5 minutes, I even drove it around for a bit. then the exact same thing: bogs out, let it sit for a minute, starts up like normal and runs fine for 20 seconds or so before bogging out again.

So It has to be either the computer (ECM) itself, or a faulty sensor / wiring giving the ECM bad data.

I'm thinking about DSMLINK. I know it's a little premature being that there are no mods on the car, but I'm thinking it could identify the problem, or at least set me on the right path. Tell me if I'm wrong, Tell me if you agree.

If you guys are even 80% sure LINK will make my troubles go away, give me a "hell yeah" or something.

Ikeelyou · 07-02-2012, 02:19 PM

Get a meter and see if the ASD relay is cutting out (automatic shutdown relay). if you can get a diagram posted on here I can show you to check for. I am just far too busy to look it up myself right now.

Chill Kill Kult · 08-04-2012, 04:33 PM

Is that the same relay that powers the fuel pump?

If so, then have already tested it, unless it could have an intermittent issue, like working fine some of the time, I did borrow one from a parts store, which didn't change anything. But this was before I shipped my ECU to link for testing, they said it had minor capacitor leakage and repaired it.

I tested the resistor box and got 6.1 ohms at each set of terminals spec was 5.5-6.5.

Like said, I found a good price on a *new* CAS ($165) so tossed that in for the hell of it. haven't had it running long enough to set timing exact but when it runs (and it runs for almost 2 mins at a time now, instead of the 20 seconds) it sounds perfect.

Anyway, something is shutting down the injectors. Have spark, fuel pressure, the whole nine. when it shuts down it wont start right back up so when it quit I plugged in a noid light and nothing, but it does have fuel pressure (hooked up a gauge) and you can hear the pump kicking on - had a guy stick a funnel in the filler neck and listen.

Honestly thinking I have/had more than one issue. I heard coolant temp sensor from somewhere, this makes no sense but I'll try it.

Also what is the little black box in between the timing belt and the block with wires going up to the injectors?

92gvr488 · 08-15-2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ikeelyou

Get a meter and see if the ASD relay is cutting out (automatic shutdown relay). if you can get a diagram posted on here I can show you to check for. I am just far too busy to look it up myself right now.

And if it is, what would be making it do that?

Chill Kill Kult · 08-18-2012, 08:50 PM

dunno, it's freaking me out and 60 hour weeks at work are killing me. If this ASD relay is the same relay that has been called "Fuel Injection Relay", "Fuel Pump Relay", "MPI Relay", and "Universal Relay" then is not the case, but for all I know there could be another half dozen relays under the carpet somewhere.

I did find a technical service bulletin for a no start condition w/ hot engine. They made a modulator kit MD175156 so I might try to find that. Also considering bad grounds what I can see looks good but I didn't tear the car apart too much yet.

Also weird that I can't get DSM link to connect with the Key On Engine Off. When the car is running it connects no problem but engine off and key in the run position doesn't do squat. Same thing for another scan tool in the garage. Just wondering if this is normal

I'll get it eventually, or I'll give up, rig it to a carburetor and pipe propane into it.

holy Jesus, modulator kit MD175156 is like 4 bills ($400.00)

bryanwheat · 08-18-2012, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chill Kill Kult

dunno, it's freaking me out and 60 hour weeks at work are killing me. If this ASD relay is the same relay that has been called "Fuel Injection Relay", "Fuel Pump Relay", "MPI Relay", and "Universal Relay" then is not the case, but for all I know there could be another half dozen relays under the carpet somewhere.

I did find a technical service bulletin for a no start condition w/ hot engine. They made a modulator kit MD175156 so I might try to find that. Also considering bad grounds what I can see looks good but I didn't tear the car apart too much yet.

Also weird that I can't get DSM link to connect with the Key On Engine Off. When the car is running it connects no problem but engine off and key in the run position doesn't do squat. Same thing for another scan tool in the garage. Just wondering if this is normal

I'll get it eventually, or I'll give up, rig it to a carburetor and pipe propane into it.

holy Jesus, modulator kit MD175156 is like 4 bills ($400.00)

Pull the ecu and check the caps on the ecu. This sounds a lot like what happens when the caps start to leak. There is no asd relay on a 1g or a 2g turbo car, that is a 420a thing. Your ecu is powered by the mpi relay in your car. Also if the fuel pump is kicking on at all than the ground is fine.

wrencher · 08-19-2012, 07:29 AM

I would look @ the ECU also. Does it have any other symptoms after it doesn't start after stalling?
Like no check engine light with the key on?

Chill Kill Kult · 08-19-2012, 01:20 PM

already had it serviced a few weeks ago when I had the socket installed for DSM link. they found minor capacitor leakage. I just might get to the point of trying another ECM for the hell of it.

check engine light comes on when you turn the key. when it shuts down, there's no bogging, it shuts down just like if you turned the key off. I did manage to pull a 35 second data stream, nothing seemed out of the ordinary, which i more or less expected since when it runs, it runs perfect.

really weird thing, I pulled the connector off of one injector (#3) to check for pulse with a noid light, and the damn thing wouldn't stall out. obv running rough since it was on 3 cylinders, but wouldn't stall out.

Thinking this tread is just going to turn into my personal bitching space.

Rsawd95dsm · 08-19-2012, 01:47 PM

Who socketed it for DSMLink? I had some douche do it and my car wouldnt run right then i figured out when the car was running I would push on the dsmlink chip and the car ran better so I just ended up have ECMLink actually put the socket on the board and all my problems went away.

Chill Kill Kult · 08-19-2012, 01:56 PM

was the package deal with dsmlink. they did it.

Chill Kill Kult · 08-25-2012, 05:17 PM

Stick a fork in it sirs.

put in another ECU and all good. No idea how ECMLink tested my original and put a socket in it. Anyway, since there was a Technical Service Bulletin on the 1990 (and apparently only the 1990) with a $400 fix; I found a 1991 GSX ECU.

This thread should be considered closed after a few "at a boy" replies.

Some good came out of this: It just got the worlds most excessive and complete tune-up. I went out and test drove in some gravel then broke an e-brake cable. When it comes to money, this car is worse than my old lady.