2G 2G Rear suspension problems

[XiKeiyaZI]

I've been reading a bit, locating all of the threads associated with anything relative to my issue. I've never had a suspension based issue that wasn't something simple like camber so - looking for some experienced minds to pick here.

The issue -

When driving anywhere 30mph+, going over a slight bump causes the passenger rear of the car to sway outward and then very quickly realign. 90% of the time if I inspect the flushness of the tire with the body from standing behind the car it is perfect. However there are various other times where the top is slanted slightly more inward than usual.

So far -

I've picked up a new shock for that side assuming that could be it as I'm sure they've never been changed. I plan on going with a complete adjustable setup in the very near future but for now I'm trying to determine the acute issue. Car is up on stands with the rear in the air - both wheels off. Checking bushings and ball joints they all look the same on both sides and besides age I see nothing bent, cracked, bruised, or torn. This is simply by eying the 'bad' side to the side 'that doesn't have the problem'.

My concerns here is that I'm overlooking something and there may be something else which may need to be inspected before hand. I've read everything from bushings to a bad strut. If there are issues with a bushing/ball joint - how apparent would it be to spot the issue? Perhaps any pictures of bad examples to be on the lookout for? Would there also be an obvious way to test any of this without throwing parts at it?

Thanks for your time.

 

[jtmcinder]

The largest contributor to lateral hopping over bumps is rear toe. (The stock alignment on an Evo X, for example, causes this.) So, let's rule this out before getting crazy. What are your current rear toe settings?

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

To be honest I've little experience with suspension - likely the least I have about anything so I can't properly answer that question. The suspension doesn't look like it's ever been touched before. How might I go about measuring this?

 

[snowborder714]

One of the many websites out there that show you how to measure toe.
Do It Yourself Alignment Tips

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Very helpful! I know what I'll be doing tonight!

Also, just to note - I quickly scanned through it and located the picture where the level is utilized and saw this ;

I put my foot on the bottom
to ensure it's tight to the rim.

It cracked me up because it got this image stuck in my head.

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So, found the problem!

Oh yeah. - YouTube

 

[jtmcinder]

Thanks, dude.

I watched your vid here at home, in my office. My wife was listening at the door. Try the video without the pictures....

"Pull it out."

"Push it back in"

"Can you do it with two fingers?"

etc.

I'm glad you found the problem with your car. Now buy me a comfier couch.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

What kind of couch would you enjoy my friend?

 

[snowborder714]

Bwahaha to the audio for that

 

[ktgurl87]

You really should think about what you're saying Kei. I'm glad the hubby wasn't home when I watched that. But mine looked the exact same when I pulled both off the rear of the GS. I have other issues I think though because even with new ones, I can still hear the rear end of the car slam when I hit a bump or pothole.

 

[Dsmrodrigo00]

what was the problem? the video is saying private

 

[cosmicDSM]

Bad Rear wheels / toe settings.
( as some dude already mentioned up there )
Few years ago my eclipse was in a tire-wheel service and thwy did a very bad job. My rear toe was incorrect.. I feel slippy and instabil on the road.. when was raining I was horrified..I thought I will fell from the road. After, a new and GOOD toe setting solved the problem.

 

[dustyboner]

i had a similar issue where it felt like the back end wasn't stable. One of the upper bushing on the rear knuckles kept messing up. Ended up the toes was way off and the toe adjustment bolt was siezed in the rear subframe so it couldnt be adjusted.

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[cosmicDSM]

Aww... its a common and general Dsm problem ( what is not? ) , the seized rear excentric washer - bolt failure. I've sucked with that too... no other solution: little handy metal saw..and cut the bolt, and the press out the bushing from the arm. ( or just the screw..if possible) and then new adjusting screw.
But now..I will change a lot of rubber bushing to poliurethane. I m fed up with the deformation and seized..old rubber bushings.

i had a similar issue where it felt like the back end wasn't stable. One of the upper bushing on the rear knuckles kept messing up. Ended up the toes was way off and the toe adjustment bolt was siezed in the rear subframe so it couldnt be adjusted.

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What is that!? The red "thing"? Is it rubber ? Looks horrible..

 

[dustyboner]

Energy suspension polyurethane bushing

 

[cosmicDSM]

Energy suspension polyurethane bushing

Interesting. because i want to change the factory bushings to PU.. What caused this distorsion for you ?

 

[dustyboner]

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maybe i didn't say i quite right, the toe adjustment bolt was siezed to the sleeve that goes thru the bushing on the toe control arm. The ball joint side of the toe C arm was higher than it was supposed to be. That was forcing the top of the knuckle toward the front of the car.

 

[LegionGS]

i had a similar issue where it felt like the back end wasn't stable. One of the upper bushing on the rear knuckles kept messing up. Ended up the toes was way off and the toe adjustment bolt was siezed in the rear subframe so it couldnt be adjusted.

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I need to replace those bushing on mine I've been thinking getting a ball joint press from Harbor Freight tools, do you think it will work? I've heard those bushings are PITA

 

[dustyboner]

i doubt a ball joint press will be good enough. i used a press that was given to me, so it didn't come with the blocks to support what your pressing. It made it a real bi*** to do. The stock bushings have a metal shell around them. Some i got to press out all in one piece. On the others, the midlle pressed out and the shell stayed.
On those ones, most of the the shells came out without too much work, but i had to use a hack saw on a few of them. I didn't cut them all the way thru just most of the way. Then i could get the shell bent in enough to get it removed.

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[pauleyman]

If any of you are considering a harbor freight hydraulic press please don't. Or if you do throw the press plates away. Get good plates or at least some good flat steel, not cast anything. I don't have anything more than a couple 3/4" flat plates and a couple I beam sections and I've done everything I've needed to do. I would love some good plates but they are not cheap. I also didn't buy the harbor freight press I bought a better one. It is the one tool that has paid for itself more than any other. Not everybody needs one but sometimes it's just the best and fastest way.

 

[RWD4G63]

Don't put energy suspension bushings in any place where the part rotates. Urethane is fine for static mounts, but it's terrible for moving control arms. It binds much more aggressively than rubber and it also has much less sheer strength. Without constant lubrication it will fail. Get new rubber bushings or replace with a quality spherical bearing.

 

[DogWhistle]

Don't put energy suspension bushings in any place where the part rotates. Urethane is fine for static mounts, but it's terrible for moving control arms. It binds much more aggressively than rubber and it also has much less sheer strength. Without constant lubrication it will fail. Get new rubber bushings or replace with a quality spherical bearing.

We’ve been looking for a full set of rubber bushings for the Spyder. We’ve only seen the urethane sets advertised. Any ideas on where would we find a full rubber set?

 

[pauleyman]

Don't put energy suspension bushings in any place where the part rotates. Urethane is fine for static mounts, but it's terrible for moving control arms. It binds much more aggressively than rubber and it also has much less sheer strength. Without constant lubrication it will fail. Get new rubber bushings or replace with a quality spherical bearing.

Show me. I've been using urethane bushings on daily driver cars for 25 years. My last two dsms have them as does my daily driven 99 4 runner.
Durometer plays a big part I believe. I've been very happy with energy suspension products.
Prior to that I was building muscle cars with pst graphite impregnated urethane. You run a spherical bearing and get ready for increased NVH. Fine but in my opinion not suitable for a streetcar.

 

[EC17PSE]

What he is trying to say is dont use energy suspension but DO use prothane! Their bush is much larger and wont push out over the bush bs energys as its a smaller shoulder, been using prothane for years now and zero issues

 

[RWD4G63]

i had a similar issue where it felt like the back end wasn't stable. One of the upper bushing on the rear knuckles kept messing up. Ended up the toes was way off and the toe adjustment bolt was siezed in the rear subframe so it couldnt be adjusted.

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Show me. I've been using urethane bushings on daily driver cars for 25 years. My last two dsms have them as does my daily driven 99 4 runner.
Durometer plays a big part I believe. I've been very happy with energy suspension products.
Prior to that I was building muscle cars with pst graphite impregnated urethane. You run a spherical bearing and get ready for increased NVH. Fine but in my opinion not suitable for a streetcar.

See above. That was easy. They've gotten better at designing things, but they still have some terrible bushings out that bind badly. I lube my sway bar bushings twice a driving season and they've been fine, but I've seen plenty blow out after a couple years of no lube. Urethane is very 'sticky' and will bind hard against any surface it rotates against and must be lubricated. If you want to service all your bushings, go ahead.
I've replaced entire front and rear suspension sets with spherical joints and rod ends, the NVH isn't bad as long as you don't have solid bushes in the subframe, and boy does the suspension work fantastically. Puts the load where it's supposed to be: in the damper.