prove a mustang wrong

[Natedsmeclipse]

ok guys i was talking to this guy tonight on FB his name is casey he thinks he knows it all and so do i . any way i copied and paste our hole conversation. help me out he is saying his car runs like shit because boost killed his coils. is this true? i don't think so! but read it and help me out take a look and tell me i am wrong. the real problem is this guy is trying to run 18lbs of boost on a mustang that is not dyno tuned but tuned buy himself that knows nothing about tuning. and he is using stock fuel system he wonders why he is on his 3rd motor! the first half is bull shit just read half way down


so have you tested the coils
10:23pmCasey
not yet
but ik there bad bc four of them are sotck
and they only last for 30k miles
plus runnin under boost will weaken them
10:24pmMe
what thats terrible
how dose that weaken them
10:24pmCasey
yea motorcraft for ya
what?
u serious
10:24pmMe
yea
10:24pmCasey
thats why you see alot of ppl get boost-a-spark
10:25pmMe
because boost has nothing to do with killing a coil pack
10:25pmCasey
wah dude
yea it does
10:25pmMe
how tell me
10:25pmCasey
its not a pack
there indivdual
10:25pmMe
a coil
same think
thing
10:26pmCasey
ik it kills mustang coils
bas are pretty popular for a boost stang
10:26pmMe
boost is a psi. coil is voltage nothing incommon
10:27pmCasey
its still gonna need more spark bc more fuel is gonna be needed at a much faster rate
make since?
sense
just trust me nate
10:28pmMe
no
10:28pmCasey
go ask dustin
10:28pmMe
ok i will
10:28pmCasey
call him up right now and ask him
k
ask him if mustansg have spark problems
10:29pmMe
right i think he is sleeping because i was texting him like 20 min ago
10:29pmCasey
o
10:29pmMe
yea they might have problems but it has nothing to do with boost
10:29pmCasey
ok nate ## right
10:29pmMe
i know
10:30pmCasey
thats why we need bas
the more boost you run the weaker they get
look it up
car boy
go to kenne bell bas
10:31pmMe
you could put a 1000psi to a coil and its not going to kill it. it dose one thing and it makes the spark plug spark thats it!
10:31pmCasey
ok
10:31pmMe
boost has nothing to do with a coil
10:31pmCasey
your right
10:32pmMe
i know you already told me
10:32pmCasey
you know more then me bout my own car
and what i need
your a fucin idiot
10:32pmMe
no i am just saying coil has nothing to do with boost thats all
10:32pmCasey
this is why i dont even like talkin to you bc you act like you know everything
aparentyl it does
look it up
10:33pmMe
ok i will
i will let you know what i come up with
sorry that come off knowing every thing. its not my fault i just understand how things work.
10:35pmMe
thats why talking to you also. you thing you know every thing also. man we are just alike
i dont like talking to you*
10:36pmCasey
no i dont actually
ik i dont know everything and i admitt it
10:36pmMe
oh ok
10:37pmCasey
your a lil ###got that blows his motor 6 times and went through 27 trannys so tell me who knows more
bahahahaha
10:37pmMe
haha good man
10:37pmCasey
end of story
10:37pmMe
i think you have cought up to me
10:37pmCasey
iv never said anything to you for you to think ik everything
and ik i dont
10:38pmMe
yea ever time i talk to you. you say "i dont man" about every thing
"i dont know man"*
10:40pmCasey is offline.
10:40pmCasey is online.
10:40pmCasey
so that makes it sound like i know everything/
??
10:40pmMe
yea
10:40pmCasey
when i tell you idk that means ik
haha
idk
10:41pmMe
haha
10:41pmCasey
wah your ####in spent
10:41pmMe
no
haha i was saying when ever we get in to talking about cars you always disagree with me.
one of us must wrong
10:42pmCasey
and its always me bc your always right
10:42pmMe
look i know i dont know every thing ok but is what i do know is that if i put my mind to it i can do just about anything.
no i am not
10:44pmCasey
thats why i have that bas sittin in front of my face it and sez turn the notch one time for the amount of boost your pushing. Hmmm boost, spark , boost,spark they dont go together
which i understand what your thinkin but they actually have something in common
10:45pmMe
i understand how things work its something that just clicks in my head. i remember a time when you were always asking me for advice. because you knew i knew what i was doing
thats timing you dumb ass it still had nothing to do with killing a coil
10:46pmCasey
yeahh? and now im tellin you something and you disagree with me bc you think you know everything and i have it right her in front of my face
10:46pmMe
link it to me
10:46pmCasey
it weakens them yes
look it up on keene bell
kene
10:47pmMe
ok send the link to me
10:47pmCasey
just look it up
10:48pmMe
i am not spending all night looking for it. just send me the link so we are on the same page
and i will understand what you are talking about
10:49pmCasey
ok go to Kenne bell .net
there wedsite isnt big
10:50pmMe
ok just you go there hi light it. copy past it. and send it to me
10:50pmCasey
idk why they would call it boost a spark
Kenne Bell Boost-A-Spark
idk maybe kenne bell is wrong and nate caster is right
10:54pmCasey
you reading that shit nigro?
10:54pmMe
no your wrong you said boost kills your coils. i just read the hole thing and it said nothing about boost killing a coil.
10:54pmCasey
and you said boost has nothing to do with spark
10:54pmMe
it give you a hotter spark
10:54pmCasey
it weakens then
10:55pmMe
no
10:55pmCasey
them
yea you did
10:55pmMe
no i am saying no to yo u
10:55pmCasey
you just said spark has nothing to do with boost
10:55pmMe
yes i know that
i was talking about in the fact that you said boost kills a coil
10:56pmCasey
ok which is wrong. its called resistance nate the harder it works the more heat they create the shorter the life and weaker the spark. use your head silly
10:56pmMe
i know there are many uogrades out there to help get better spark. i have one
10:57pmCasey
im done talkin about this
do more research
10:57pmMe

10:57pmCasey
im going to bed
it only makes since nate
10:58pmMe
in your world
i will get on the forums
10:58pmCasey
the harder those work the hotter they get the weaker they get
makes since doesnt it?
10:59pmMe
no because they can not just start working harder. its not like a persion they only work to the way that they are made they have no idea that you are boosting or are NA. they dont have a mind
11:01pmCasey
haha
i g2g to bed some of us have work in the morning
ngiht
11:02pmMe
night casey good luck and let me know how things turn out (send as a message)
Your chat message wasn't sent because

 

[Bluedragondsm]

I thought turbo plugs ran colder?

 

[yepes281]

ahhhh to long!

 

[Bluedragondsm]

ahhhh to long!

the TL;DR from what I gathered is the mustang owner thinks the more boost you use the hotter you have to run the plugs which makes coilpacks work harder and makes them break faster

I also only skimmed it

 

[yepes281]

WRONG hotter plug = knock = pop

and coil plug working harder?? wtf

 

[Bluedragondsm]

WRONG hotter plug = knock = pop

Yea this is what I was always told and never bothered to test it because I like my HG

 

[Natedsmeclipse]

WRONG hotter plug = knock = pop

and coil plug working harder?? wtf

that what i am saying! thank yo u

 

[Bluedragondsm]

Yea I am not an electrician but I am pretty sure the heat of the plug has little to do with the current the coilpack is providing and more with the gap and the material in the head.

 

[Alex Bland]

i could and might be wrong but this is what i think

The coil makes spark according to the RPM's and when the motor hits tdc it sparks the cyl. now that theres boost in the cyl its still gunna spark it the same when its at tdc, to me that whole convo is like saying the coil will last longer if you have low compression in ## cyl's. thats just what i think

 

[Natedsmeclipse]

i could and might be wrong but this is what i think

The coil makes spark according to the RPM's and when the motor hits tdc it sparks the cyl. now that theres boost in the cyl its still gunna spark it the same when its at tdc, to me that whole convo is like saying the coil will last longer if you have low compression in ## cyl's. thats just what i think

yes your right. but dose boost kill a coil or make it weaker?

 

[extremeatheist]

I couldn't read that.

 

[juanpac0]

yes your right. but dose boost kill a coil or make it weaker?

No but if you're running a lot of boost you can blow out the spark.

 

[tenn-gsx]

Mo. Boost will make the compressed air denser. This "Thicker" air is harder for the electrical current to jump the gap through. At a certain point it is impossible for the spark to jump the gap. Once this happens there are 2 simple ways to fix it. More spark or smaller plug gap. Could it burn up the coils with too much boost? I'm not sure. But I kinda doubt it. They just wont do the job unless you turn down the boost, increase the voltage output, reduce the gap, or any combination of the 3.

 

[Benshooter]

What? Reading stuff like that makes me want to climb a bell tower with a high power rifle. Oye.

The only thing that I've [personally seen that will consistently take out coils is too big of a plug gap, which makes the coil work harder. It happens a lot with Audis at least.

Sounds like he might be getting blow-out and misinterpreting it as a bad coil.

Either way, I'd roll that pony off a cliff and be happy with the insurance money.

 

[Bluefire16]

Way to long to even bother. Try editing it and getting to the main points. I dont want to have to read between you and your friend bitching at each other.

 

[Thomas91169]

boost doesnt kill coils, nor does large gap. Coils fire at their voltage regardless of what the plug is doing. They dont know the gap, so they dont know if they should work harder or work less; theres no magical "gap sensor" that tells the coil to put out a certain voltage or not. If the spark fails to make the gap, oh well.

id also like to know more about the mustang in question. If its a GT, Cobra, M1, etc. A 03/04 Cobra will laugh at 18psi, but if you run it too lean (because lots of mustang tuners think 12:1 is acceptable for boosted apps on pump gas) you will heat up the pistons in #7 and #8 cylinders and cause them to expand too much and make out with the cylinder wall. A GT has crappy bottom end, good for up to 12-13psi intercooled (possibly more with e85 or meth, and being turbocharged with a big snail at lower boost will help EGT's vs Roots/TwinScrew/Centrifugal), but i havent seen many GT motors survive past 450whp.

 

[Natedsmeclipse]

boost doesnt kill coils, nor does large gap. Coils fire at their voltage regardless of what the plug is doing. They dont know the gap, so they dont know if they should work harder or work less; theres no magical "gap sensor" that tells the coil to put out a certain voltage or not. If the spark fails to make the gap, oh well.

id also like to know more about the mustang in question. If its a GT, Cobra, M1, etc. A 03/04 Cobra will laugh at 18psi, but if you run it too lean (because lots of mustang tuners think 12:1 is acceptable for boosted apps on pump gas) you will heat up the pistons in #7 and #8 cylinders and cause them to expand too much and make out with the cylinder wall. A GT has crappy bottom end, good for up to 12-13psi intercooled (possibly more with e85 or meth, and being turbocharged with a big snail at lower boost will help EGT's vs Roots/TwinScrew/Centrifugal), but i havent seen many GT motors survive past 450whp.

its a mustang GT with the SOHC.

 

[Thomas91169]

its a mustang GT with the SOHC.

ah then he's just a ####tard.

ask him if he's on any real mustang forums (modulardepot, svtperformance, etc).


its funny because when it comes to tuning, and whats going on inside your motor, why its going on, what makes different things get different results, etc; the domestic world is pretty much retarded. only few people know what they are doing when it comes to those cars. I applied the knowledge i learned from dsm's on the Cobras and its amazing how simple tuning concepts like timing, proper a/f ratios, fuel systems, are above them. Not surprising, especially since the response to anyone wanting to tune is "take it to a dyno" where the import world its "download this, hook it up, and figure it out yourself on some country backroad". Im glad i started with DSM's because otherwise id be like 90% of mustang/camaro guys thinking my intake/exhaust/dynot00n GT makes 400hp and eats corvettes.

 

[Benshooter]

boost doesnt kill coils, nor does large gap. Coils fire at their voltage regardless of what the plug is doing. They dont know the gap, so they dont know if they should work harder or work less; theres no magical "gap sensor" that tells the coil to put out a certain voltage or not. If the spark fails to make the gap, oh well.

Dont make me laugh now kiddo. Go do some reading before you contradict my statements. I'm speaking from experience while you obviously are not.

 

[nuclearr]

Only thing I have to add is that mustang coils are junk. Especially the ones that come in a the 90's body style.

 

[Rex2342]

boost doesnt kill coils, nor does large gap. Coils fire at their voltage regardless of what the plug is doing. They dont know the gap, so they dont know if they should work harder or work less; theres no magical "gap sensor" that tells the coil to put out a certain voltage or not. If the spark fails to make the gap, oh well.

^^This

The coil will fire consistently and when the computer (or whatever) tells it to. The coil doesn't work harder under boost because it has no idea what boost is. It puts out its predetermined voltage no matter what unless it is faulty. The boost would only affect the spark plugs. They simply won't fire if the gap is too great but they will still receive the same signal from the coils at their predetermined time.

 

[Natedsmeclipse]

so we all have came to the conclusion that boost dose not kill your coil but more your spark plugs because they are not gaped right "perhaps"? and the fact that the mustang coils are junk and casey "the mustang guy" talks like he has a paper ###hole because the s##t keeps falling out of it. so is what i need to know is my proof of my findings good to present to him. or should i hold off and let him think he is smarter than a my g/f who probably knows more than him?

 

[LiquidX]

No, boost will not kill a coil pack. However higher heat can. The boost a spark thing is most likely a new ignition pack like a dynatech DIS2 which sends a higher voltage through the plugs to give a stronger spark to help prevent blow out and to allow you to run a larger plug gap.

What is he using to tune as some systems mess with the coils and it's possible if he has a unit that does that he could be over working the coil and burning them out.

Also more boost you run the colder the plug you want as said above.

 

[Thomas91169]

Dont make me laugh now kiddo. Go do some reading before you contradict my statements. I'm speaking from experience while you obviously are not.

prove me wrong then "kiddo".

id love to hear some actual proof on how air pressure inside the combustion chamber can destroy an electrical part that sits on top of the plug. Id like to know why every 03/04 Cobra guy, whether or not they are running 15psi or 30psi, are still using the stock COP's, especially since they are the same COP's that come in the GT's, Mach1's, etc. A few tards will upgrade to ACCEL or WeaponX/Granatelli COP's because they are complaining about misfire at high rpm/boost but then you ask them their plug gap and they go "factory .040" or whatever and you just laugh on the inside because they spent $350 on a set of 8 COP's when they couldve gotten the same results by pulling the plug and gapping down.

Only thing I have to add is that mustang coils are junk. Especially the ones that come in a the 90's body style.

early 90's (fox's) and 5.0 SN95's (94-95) still use a distributor. 96-98's run DIS (distributorless) while 99+ is coil on plug. Ive NEVER heard of anyone having actual issues, i know idiots in that realm will look at the coils or replace but usually its a futile attempt because 95% of the time they mis-diagnosed the issue, or jumped to the wrong diagnosis and instantly faulted the DIS/COP when in fact its a plug/gap or wire (if DIS/Distributor) thats at fault.

 

[Benshooter]

prove me wrong then "kiddo".

id love to hear some actual proof on how air pressure inside the combustion chamber can destroy an electrical part that sits on top of the plug. Id like to know why every 03/04 Cobra guy, whether or not they are running 15psi or 30psi, are still using the stock COP's, especially since they are the same COP's that come in the GT's, Mach1's, etc. A few tards will upgrade to ACCEL or WeaponX/Granatelli COP's because they are complaining about misfire at high rpm/boost but then you ask them their plug gap and they go "factory .040" or whatever and you just laugh on the inside because they spent $350 on a set of 8 COP's when they couldve gotten the same results by pulling the plug and gapping down.



early 90's (fox's) and 5.0 SN95's (94-95) still use a distributor. 96-98's run DIS (distributorless) while 99+ is coil on plug. Ive NEVER heard of anyone having actual issues, i know idiots in that realm will look at the coils or replace but usually its a futile attempt because 95% of the time they mis-diagnosed the issue, or jumped to the wrong diagnosis and instantly faulted the DIS/COP when in fact its a plug/gap or wire (if DIS/Distributor) thats at fault.

Please re-read my original post. Nowhere in it do I say air pressure kills coils. As far as the gap, I'll let you prove it to yourself. Go pull the plugs on a VW/Audi 1.8t or 2.8 or 2.7t motor and add about .05 and see how long the coils last. I don't know if a larger than spec gap has an effect on any other COP's but with those, it will kill them.