I didn't listen, now I'm just another victim..........

[onepimpclipse]

I got rims and lowered my car 2" about six months ago. I figured regular alignments, rotations, and balances would be enough to keep from having any sort of uneven wear. Well, changing my oil this morning I noticed the insides of my rear tires are almost completely worn. My tires are 235/45/17 Yokohama Avid H 4's.

To the point, I just need everyones opinions on different camber kits. I'm looking at either Eibach or Ingalls, and yes I know about the $20 bolt and washer deal. I can get a couple different kits for free, so just give your opinions. Thanks in advance.

 

[jtmcinder]

Washers are not only the cheapest, but they can't slip.

- Jtoby

ps. when you got the car aligned, did you just ask for spec? if you did, then stop doing that. ask for zero toe front and rear. spec in the front is zero, but spec in the rear is some toe in.

 

[onepimpclipse]

Thanks for the advice on getting the alignment. I was asking for spec. I never even thought about that.

 

[jtmcinder]

I didn't space out my rear arm for a few months after lowering the car. But I got zero rear toe and had no bad tire wear. The reason that I spaced out the rear arms is that the car was understeering like a 3200# pig with 1.5 degrees front camber and 2.8 degrees rear camber. The reason that it understeered like this kind of pig is that it was that kind of pig. With 2.2 degrees front and 1.8 degrees rear, the car is a blast.

oink oink

- Jtoby

 

[tylerdurden801]

Do you really want zero toe up front? My CRX was set to 1/8 out (total) up front, 0 in rear with -1.8 in front and -.8 in the rear. The car turned in extremely well and was quite neutral for using just lowering springs (H&R Sports paired with Yellows). I also exhibited even wear when rotating them every oil change (I got a year out the Azenis and they are about half worn). Wouldn't you lose a decent amount of turn in with 0 toe in front?

 

[jtmcinder]

I adore front toe out. Worth a quarter second on a 45-second autoX run. But mine's a daily driver with more than 2 degrees of camber and the tires can't take it.

This is one reason to be jealous of WRX drivers. When they slap their camber plates over to full negative, they gain toe out. So they can have a tire-friendly street alignment and then be optimized for autoXing in about two minutes.

- Jtoby

 

[kiakarimi]

I'm about to have GCs on my car and its gonna be pretty low. I'm unfamiliar with the alignment terms like the amount of degrees and toe. If i went to get an alignment afterwards, what exactly do i say to the guy who is doing it?

 

[tylerdurden801]

Well, without a camber kit you can't adjust that (that's the measurement in degrees we're speaking of), that will be determined by the drop you go with (the lower you go the more neg. camber). You can have them adjust the toe, however, and it sounds like zero front and rear will do you just fine.

 

[jtmcinder]

You have a 2G, so here's what I'd do:

First, make sure that it's an alignment shop that has some idea of what it is doing. This isn't always easy, so ask around town. After some looking, I found a place that would also let me come back there with them and they weren't adverse to my helping and making comments. (This required that I show great restraint and not be the officious a-hole that I am often wont to be. In other words, it was a learning experience for all of us. But I seem to be off-point.)

Then I'd get all the parts needed for a home-depot rear camber kit. This means eight M10x40mm 1.25 thread bolts plus a large handful of M10 washers.

After they have done the initial measurements, calculate how many washers you need to get the rear camber at least as low as the front, if not a bit lower. The way that this is done is by taking the tangent of the amount of camber to delete and multiplying by 24". Then see how many washers it will take to get this thickness and put these in behind the upper arm pivots. The reason that you bought those eight new bolts is that the stock bolts won't be long enought to hold the washers.

Expect to pay one hour of labor above the cost of a "standard" 4-wheel alignment. Should be around $100. And don't forget to insist on zero toe if your camber is above 1.5 degrees.

One other thing, while you're there. You'll probably find that your left caster is about 1.5 degrees lower than your right caster. Verify that this is because the bushings on the compression arms are different: that the left one is upside down. There's no easy fix for this, but it's useful to know. If you want to fix this, start a new thread.

Good luck.

- Jtoby

ps. for an introduction to suspension terms, see my newbie web-site: http://gandalf.la.psu.edu/cinder/

 

[Archer Fabrications]

i got eibach pro and kyb AGX on stock GSX 17s with the stock tire specs (toyo proxes 4s) i havent gotten an alignment yet, but i did just buy the STM rear camber kit (with the washers) do you think 4 washers will do the trick? and should i also be asking for zero toe front and back? i dont want to ruin my brand new tires. i think the total drop was 1.75

 

[jtmcinder]

Yes and yes. You might want a smidgeon of rear toe-in to keep the car from wandering with the OE bushings, but don't get as much rear toe-in as the manual calls for.

 

[jjw205]

Yes and yes. You might want a smidgeon of rear toe-in to keep the car from wandering with the OE bushings, but don't get as much rear toe-in as the manual calls for.

Will he need a front camber kit with that amount of drop (1.75") to keep tire wear down? Or will he be ok?

 

[jtmcinder]

With zero toe, the fronts will be fine.

 

[TrevorS]

A related question and definitely open to input.

I have KYB GR-2 struts and Eibach Prokit springs on my '90 GSX. After the initial alignment, I found the camber was out on the fronts, the left front toe adjustment was frozen, the left rear toe adjuster was flopping, the right rear toe adjuster was frozen, and the rear camber and toe were out.

Over a couple or so months and some check alignments (costly, but I don't know how else to find out where it's at ), I installed Ingels camber bots in both fronts and the left rear trailing arm, fixed the flopping adjuster, freed the two frozen adjusters, and replaced the OE left control arm (right had been previously replaced).

As of the last alignment, these were the numbers:

Front:
Camber L:-0.1 R:0.1
Caster L:2.8 R:2.2
Toe L:-.01 R:.02
Cross Camber -0.2
Cross Caster 0.6
Total Toe .01

Rear:
Camber L:-1.8 R: -1.8
Toe L:.18 R: .21
Cross Camber 0.1
Total Toe .39

Here was my starting point after installing the Prokit springs.

Front:
Camber L:0.3 R:-0.8
Caster L:2.9 R:2.1
Toe L:-.01 R:.01
Cross Camber 1.0
Cross Caster 0.8
Total Toe 0.0

Rear:
Camber L:-2.1 R: -2.7
Toe L:.32 R: .09
Cross Camber -0.4
Total Toe .42

Mechanically speaking, outside of possibly installing another Ingels in the right trailing arm to allow less toe, I think this is the best I can achieve (at least relative to spec). Is there anything that would clearly be better different? (0.0* total rear toe?)

PS. The balancing act between toe and camber in the rear is really a pain !

 

[Archer Fabrications]

With zero toe, the fronts will be fine.

i stand corrected. the eibach pro kit is a 1.3 drop :S how about now? still 4 washers? and zero toe front and rear? or maybe a little toe in the rear? when i put in the STM camber kit do those nuts need a torque spec?