is my setup decent enough?

[kiakarimi]

I have a 97 GSX. When i first got the car i was in a hurry to get rid of that ugly wheel gap without busting my budget on high performing suspension, so i got a package deal of tokico blue shocks with tokico springs. It was soon after that i realized a high performance suspension was all i really cared about. Like they say, mod cheap, mod twice. Anyways, since then i've been focusing on other aspects of the suspension to sweeten my ride.

I got yokohama avs es100 tires, ST rear sway bar, and front and rear strut tower braces.

Now i know its nothing special by any means, but how well do you think my baby will do at AutoX or road racing courses with the current setup?

I am planning on removing the AC, getting a carbon fiber hood (for cosmetics as well as the little bit of weight reduction), and other misc things to reduce weight such as spare tire, etc.

What else could I do outside of better shocks and springs to fine tune my suspension? Do you think its imperative that i get a hardcore set of shocks and springs or coilovers in order to have a supremely handling ride?

 

[jtmcinder]

If you want to be competitive (as well as have fun), then you really need to stop and read the SCCA Solo 2 rules before you go any farther. As an example, a CF hood will bump you into Street Modified, where you will be up against unlimited engines, purpose-built suspensions, etc. You already have bumped yourself into Street Prepared or STX with what you've done, and the car is underprepped for these.

Given that you can no longer backdate the CBV (aka BOV) in STX, the best shot for a 2G is in Street Prepared. If you go to

http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/sp.html#s14

you will find last year's SP rules. Look through those and plan your mods accordingly.

Getting back to your actual question: no, in the long run you're going to want much stiffer springs and better shocks. My car is a daily-driver and ESP car. I run 500/450 springs and Konis. Decent compromise.

Then start praying to the front-camber gods. You'll need them.

Join the yahoo group for autoXing DSMs and read the archives and ask questions.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dsm-autox/

And don't fear the F-bodies. The problems these day are the Moose-tangs, now that they can totally rework their rear suspensions.

- Jtoby

 

[kiakarimi]

Thanks for the reply! Well it would mostly be just to have fun, so I'm not sure i would want to hold myself back on a mod i want (like the cf hood) just because it will bump me up a level, thats a little too much for me. Plus there are many autox events not held through SCCA that are just "run what you brung," correct? I also would like to road race as well as having a car that can handle twisties as a daily driver better than average.

I did however have a question a bit more specific however, about the Tein SS damper and the Tein Type Flex. Are they basically the same setup except the flex has more adjustability, or is the flex a better performing coilover anyways?

By the way jtmcinder, That picture of your car in your profile is SO sexy and i have it saved, you should start a gallery!

 

[hoffman]

to be quite honest, i dont know anyone that runs Tein or JIC in autox. they just dont perform for the money i suppose.

like JToby said, read the rule and then figure out what you want to do. you may have engine mods that alerady put you into SM (i.e. MBC, exhaust, etc). the scca rules can be confusing, so just start from stock, SP, STX, then SM to understand whats allowed so you dont have to go back and forth.

Personally, i run SM class. i also like my koni/gc set up (550fr/450rr spring rates).

the best advice for setting up for autox is to start with tires. even on a sloppy suspension tires help. from there, my order is, sways (front and rear), shocks/springs (do both at the same time) then work the camber.

i really dont know about autox held outside of scca. i know there are some clubs (bmw club of america) that hold races, but nothing sanctioned like scca.

 

[kiakarimi]

I heard that Konis and DSS springs was a better combo than with GCs, don't exactly remember why, is that true? Also do you think Konis plus good coilovers are just as good performance wise than a true all in one coilover setup like JIC or Teins?

 

[hoffman]

dont know, never ran them.

yes. the shocks that come with tein and jic aren't exactly the best imo. you can build your entire suspension for the price of just a tein kit. or you could have the best autox tires and decent rims for the price of just a tein kit.

check out the dsm.autox data base. look at what the people are running and what class they run in. you are going to see alot of similar things.

 

[jtmcinder]

No criticism of Mike intended, but DSS is more of a 1G vendor. In fact, I'd talk to Mike as much or more than RRE if I had a 1G. For 2Gs, the people to talk to are at RRE. Example, until I had my long talk with them, I was convinced that going to 500/400 (as compared to GC's recommended spring rates of 450/300) was rather extreme. But the first thing John said was "that's gunna understeer like a pig ... if you won't up the rear rates, at least disconnect the front sway bar." My reaction to this was "you're nuts," but I got a deal on some used, higher-rate rear springs and tried it out (leaving the front bar alone). Almost killed myself on my first two runs. (Hyperbole: I almost spun, that's all.) But by the end of the day, I had adjusted to not having to trail-brake and needing to be on it for real by the apex, and was not only faster, but having an absolute blast.

Loose is fast. More important: loose is fun.

- Jtoby

 

[cait sith]

Originally posted by hoffman
dont know, never ran them.

yes. the shocks that come with tein and jic aren't exactly the best imo. you can build your entire suspension for the price of just a tein kit. or you could have the best autox tires and decent rims for the price of just a tein kit.

I don't think that JIC or Tein are terrible manufacturers as much as they are new to the market and are somewhat "no names".

You're talking about companies who have less than five years state side experience vs. companies who've been around since the thirties.

Does that make them magically better or worse? That's unknown. I do know that the DSM's get the shit end of the stick as far as what Tein offers in trim levels (The "FLEX" system isn't much), and that JIC's in theory have a decent design philosophy (Mono tube, nitrogen charged, totally revalvable/rebuildable shocks), but just no real presence in the pro scene (No, D1 events, and bouncy dumpy JDM show boyze don't count), hence the distrust of these "newer" companies.

I know Road Race Engineering preaches JIC's as the bible, but that's Road Race Engineering, not a SCCA Nationals Autocross/Road course winner. (Edit: Not to say that RRE is unexperienced creating killer suspensions!)

I've been in a few cars (non DSM's, unfortunately) with Koni's, adjusted a few Koni yellows, and I'm planning on a set of JIC's. I'll try to make as great of comparisons to each other.

 

[kiakarimi]

i went to the dsm autox group on yahoo and ALOT of people are running KYB AGX, does anybody know of or have experience with these? Also, whats the difference between koni yellows and koni sports?

 

[jtmcinder]

I've said this a few times on various threads. I'll try to say it differently here.

You have to first decide on the spring rates. (This requires that you have specific goals in mind, such as autoX vs drag vs street.) Then you find the shocks to go with these springs.

If you decide you want the car to be a competitive autoXer, then you're up around 500-550 on the front springs and 400-450 in the rear. For these you can't run Illuminas or KYB AGXs, because these don't have enough rebound damping without also having way too much compression damping. You want Koni Yellows. And the shorter bodies are very useful, because you can lower the car more without hitting the bumpstops.

If this is a street car, then your fronts are 400-450 and your rears are 300-350 and Illuminas are fine. This is what RRE recommends for the street on a 2G.

I've heard that some people like AGXs for drag racing, due to the high compression damping. I don't know. I don't drag race. Yes, some people run these for autoXing. But they shouldn't. Not on a 2G, at least. And I don't know anyone fast on these.

- Jtoby

 

[hoffman]

cait sith: not that i have anything against the newer companies offering these suspensions, its just like you have said, they aren't proven yet in this sport. nothing against RRE either (mike and co are awesome) but there is a world of difference between road race and autox. JIC may work well for road cars, but might not be able to work well enough for the faster reactions that autox demands.

kiakarimi: if you really are interested in autox, decided which group you fit into, then look at how much money you are willing to spend on this car. i cant speak for STX because i built my car for SM, but SM is expensive. you will want to buy the best suspension you can. best tires (not tires you drive on the street either), engine mods, gutted, etc, just to be competitive. RM SoloII SM class for instance, im pitted agains numerous 350+ whp DSMs, built mustangs, supras, turbo bimmers. not an easy group.

do not run KYBs on a 2g. a few hard corners and you might find your shock rod hanging out of the bottom of the shock body. consider konis yellows (which is koni sport). besides having a superior shock there are also more parts that work for this shock that aren't available for other shocks.

 

[jtmcinder]

As to autoX classes, STX is now very hard for a 2G DSM. The update/backdate rules are gone and the entire intake from the turbo to the valves must be stock. That means, inter alia, a stock, 2G CBV. So, if you upgrade the exhaust and start getting 14+ psi from the stock boost-control system, you will leak via the CBV and kill the turbo.

I'd say that 2G DSMs have the best shot in ESP, followed by SM, followed by DS. Others, I'm sure, will disagree.

- Jtoby

 

[jim97gst]

I did however have a question a bit more specific however, about the Tein SS damper and the Tein Type Flex. Are they basically the same setup except the flex has more adjustability, or is the flex a better performing coilover anyways?

I read this post and noticed nobody has answered your question. The main difference is that the flex has spherical bearing (pillow ball) upper mounts already with it, although you can buy them seperately for the SS. The flex has slightly stiffer springs in the front. Also, only the Flex is compatible with the EDFC if you're into that (electrical doo-hicky to adjust the dampening from the driver seat). NOT something you're going to do on an auto-X course, but probably fun to play with. Check out here to see the nitty gritty details of the differences:

http://www.tein.com/mitsubishi.html

I would suggest you just start autocrossing and see how much you like it and how much time/money/energy you want to put into setting up the car. It's a lot of fun even in a completely stock car.

 

[cait sith]

Fedja is in my region (And you should all know who HE is), and if/when I get my suspension setup right, and I manage to catch him at an event, I'll see if he'll take a spin in my car.

Unfortunately, I don't run any sort of DOT slicks for Autocross (I run for giggles, not for winning), as I'm more into doing open track times, so that will mar performance comparisons.

 

[jtmcinder]

If you can catch Fedja - heck, if you can catch Chuckles Moss - running 235 Yokos, then I will consider naming my second-born for you.

- Jtoby <- half second back from Charles, last time I tried

 

[cait sith]

I'll see what I can do...