2G Drum to Disk swap - seized brake line nuts.

[cbarr0288]

Hello all, I am attempting to do a swap from old rusty drums to some GS-T disk brakes. This is my first brake job whatsoever so the idea here was to use as much common sense and online help as there is available. There's a bunch of different write-ups on the subject, but as far as i know they don't cover what I'm going through now.

So on both sides I:
* Jacked the car up safely
* Removed both rear wheels
* Removed both drum covers

On the passenger side:
* Removed flex line retaining bracket
* Removed all four bolts from behind the knuckle

Now for the fun part:

* Passanger side - Attempted to remove flex line from hard line. WRENCH TURNED, NUT DID NOT.
(Note: I specifically went out and bought a 10mm flare wrench so I didn't run into trouble here.)
* Went over to the other side, and tried this before I got the knuckle unbolted thinking it was just that side which was bad. SAME RESULT!
*Tried tapping it with a hammer. No difference.
* Soaked both sides in liquid wrench for 3 hrs. & tried again on passenger side. It's just getting rounder.
*Soaked in more liquid wrench overnight, tried again in the morning. More rounding occurs. It's starting to round out very nicely now.
*Bought a torch. Started to light the thing up until it caught on fire. Took vise grips to it now, tightening to the best of my ability. No luck.

Here it is in its current state: The nut connecting from the hard brake to flex hose is completely stripped. It has also shown no sign of movement.. Totally stumped!
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Suggestions?

 

[bryanwheat]

You need a nice set of flat jaw vice grips. IT will come out the first time time you try. Did you not use a line wrench from the start? It looks as if you used a normal open end wrench.

 

[cbarr0288]

You need a nice set of flat jaw vice grips. IT will come out the first time time you try. Did you not use a line wrench from the start? It looks as if you used a normal open end wrench.

I used the flare wrench / line wrench to start. It was on there very tight, and it stripped very easily. I have been using vise grips, although they are not the flat kind, it is flat on the tip. I have tried tightening on the tip where it's flat also. no luck.

I'm thinking of hack sawing the hard line at this point.

 

[tmaxx411]

Dont saw the hard line. get a pair of vice grips, and clamp them on, tight. then try to turn it. just be careful the nut spins and the line doesnt shear off (Ive had that happen to me one too many times)

 

[cbarr0288]

Dont saw the hard line. get a pair of vice grips, and clamp them on, tight. then try to turn it. just be careful the nut spins and the line doesnt shear off (Ive had that happen to me one too many times)

If I have already taken vise grips (various sizes) to it, why would it work this time. I have clamped as tight as the vise grips will go.

I do not have flat vise grips like bryanwheat was saying, but how much of a difference could it really make?

 

[pos4g63]

Cut it off, buy some new flex lines and fab yourself up some new hard lines. All you have to do is buy a tubing bender and get the correct length. All parts you need are available at your local parts store.

 

[tmaxx411]

ive always been able to get them off. even more damaged than that one is. are you clamping it at the tip of the vice grips? clamp where it has teeth. worst case scenario, you'll have to fab up some brake lines. buy extra if its your first time, since you are bound to mess up at least once.

 

[cbarr0288]

Cut it off, buy some new flex lines and fab yourself up some new hard lines. All you have to do is buy a tubing bender and get the correct length. All parts you need are available at your local parts store.

I have new flex lines already. I was planning on replacing them with the swap. If I cut it, are there replacement nuts I will be able to get somewhere??

There has to be a nut that fits into the flex line. Are those something I could get PepBoys? I am going to rent a flaring kit. Ill check back to see what you guys have to say on the subject later. Actually, Ill bring you with me (Droid).

ive always been able to get them off. even more damaged than that one is. are you clamping it at the tip of the vice grips? clamp where it has teeth. worst case scenario, you'll have to fab up some brake lines. buy extra if its your first time, since you are bound to mess up at least once.

I used both the teeth, and the tip. The tip has teeth also, just smaller.

 

[97gst_spyder]

You have to 'pop' them loose or you will strip them everytime. If its already stripped grab some vise grips and clamp them on and hit it with your palm, hard. It will pop and un-screw easily.

 

[pos4g63]

New hard lines come with the nuts on them already all you have to do is fab them up.

 

[cbarr0288]

You have to 'pop' them loose or you will strip them everytime. If its already stripped grab some vise grips and clamp them on and hit it with your palm, hard. It will pop and un-screw easily.

I popped it using a hammer. All this does is cause the vise grips to slip.

New hard lines come with the nuts on them already all you have to do is fab them up.

Thanks. Im going to the store now to check this out.

 

[97gst_spyder]

Then its not tight enough. Or your grips are not great quality.

 

[tmaxx411]

Then its not tight enough. Or your grips are not great quality.

This is a very real possibility. If you do end up cutting it, use a tubing cutter otherwise it will be a useless end. Thrn you will have to put a new nut on the line and flare it. Practice on some scrap tubing, its not that simple. Then you will need a union, and then the new piece of brake line. And hope it doesnt leak.

 

[cbarr0288]

This is a very real possibility. If you do end up cutting it, use a tubing cutter otherwise it will be a useless end. Thrn you will have to put a new nut on the line and flare it. Practice on some scrap tubing, its not that simple. Then you will need a union, and then the new piece of brake line. And hope it doesnt leak.

PepBoys gave me the wrong size coupler, so Ill have to go get the right one tomorrow & probably one for the other side just to be safe.

But after that, I'm going in for the snip. I did get some flaring practice in.

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[cbarr0288]

A couple of things. I DID manage to get the nut off. I talked to a couple mechanics about the specifics of what was going on. Turns out I was not getting the nut hot enough. Also I was heting the wrong part. I used a different set of vise grips as well. The combination of those three things was a success

(1) Used a flat(ter) set of vise grips and used the teeth. Thanks for the input on that one.
(2) Heated the nut, not the outside. I was told to get it red hot, but it wasn't possible with a butane torch.
(3) Right before I cranked it, threw a cup of cold water over it (another mechanics tip). You know its working when it sizzles on contact.

After successfully getting the nut off I still had to cut it off, so I could replace that beat up nut. Lol. All that work for nothing.

Anywayyy.. I put a new nut on there, flared the stock pipe, and bent it back into position.

And as soon as I am ready to put everything back together on the car, I put the e-brake assembly up for a test fit, and.. well it doesn't fit. WTF! Pictures later.

 

[dsmcrzy]

And as soon as I am ready to put everything back together on the car, I put the e-brake assembly up for a test fit, and.. well it doesn't fit. WTF! Pictures later.

Just checking but you do have disk brake e-brake lines correct? The drum e-brake lines will NOT fit.

I did this swap on my car so I know but I had no where near the issue you did with the flare nut I just used alot of WD40 .

 

[cbarr0288]

Just checking but you do have disk brake e-brake lines correct? The drum e-brake lines will NOT fit.

I did this swap on my car so I know but I had no where near the issue you did with the flare nut I just used alot of WD40 .

Yeah it has been kind of a PITA for sure. It's a learing experience.

I ordered the e-brake assemblies from a guy on this forum, and they do not fit. They were supposedly off a GS-T. I have contacted him through e-mail and PM, no response as of yet!

 

[dsmcrzy]

How do they not fit though? like not long enough? or are the ends on the lines not correct?

Also don't forget to bleed the brakes and tighten down the hubs real good!

 

[bryanwheat]

I would just use the flare that comes on the line to connect to the hose, and connect the line to the existing line with a compression union. I don't really car for the cheaper flaring tools, they always squeeze the shit out of the line. MAKE sure that you get the metric line, they will try to sell you the standard every time and it will fit and tighten down, but it fits real loose.

 

[cbarr0288]

I would just use the flare that comes on the line to connect to the hose, and connect the line to the existing line with a compression union. I don't really car for the cheaper flaring tools, they always squeeze the shit out of the line. MAKE sure that you get the metric line, they will try to sell you the standard every time and it will fit and tighten down, but it fits real loose.

Actually, I used the existing hard line. I cut off that POS nut, put a new one on, and used the flare tool on the end. That way I don't have a union that doesn't pass inspection. A guy told me threaded unions will not pass.. which leads me to my next point.. why would they sell them, and why was I not told about the compression unions before now? Well, I think my work came out decent enough.

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How do they not fit though? like not long enough? or are the ends on the lines not correct?

Also don't forget to bleed the brakes and tighten down the hubs real good!

See for yourself.

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[97gst_spyder]

Looks good! Told you vice grips would work. I've had to use them on 3 dsms when switching out the rear for disks.

 

[dsmcrzy]

They should fit but that bolt pattern goes one way so there is a top and bottom to those try turning them around you also might have the left and rights mixed up

 

[97gst_spyder]

Nope, wont fit. You need FWD parking brake plates. You have AWD ones. Which have a much larger center bore for the larger bearing and axle.

If you get the AWD knuckles, you can install them on your FWD. But you would need AWD wheel hubs, they are expensive.

 

[cbarr0288]

Nope, wont fit. You need FWD parking brake plates. You have AWD ones. Which have a much larger center bore for the larger bearing and axle.

If you get the AWD knuckles, you can install them on your FWD. But you would need AWD wheel hubs, they are expensive.

So pissed off. There is a TON of misinformation (miss information?) out there.. People kept telling me, and directing me to threads that told me I needed this part from a GS, GST, GSX, Sebring or Avenger with discs. When people don't know, they shouldn't tell. Don't tell what you think you know!! Why did I think I could trust 2gnt (scroll to parts section)

I also broke a piston seal when trying to quickly clean the other caliper. Haste really does make waste. Now I need to figure out how to go about repairing the seal or just replace it - whichever is more cost effective. Now I have something to do while waiting for my parts to arrive. Great.

I'll sure have brakes mastered by the end of this.. WAIT, I don't even know how to go about bleeding them. Nevermind I'll still be a newb.

They should fit but that bolt pattern goes one way so there is a top and bottom to those try turning them around you also might have the left and rights mixed up

Naw man, it's WAY bigger. I tried the other one as well as flipping them around. It was like the first thing I tried.

 

[2slow4now]

Nope, wont fit. You need FWD parking brake plates. You have AWD ones. Which have a much larger center bore for the larger bearing and axle.

If you get the AWD knuckles, you can install them on your FWD. But you would need AWD wheel hubs, they are expensive.

I agree you have the AWD E-brake plates. I just found this one out while working on my awd swap for my tsi. They look so similar you wouldn't think there was a difference until you set them side by side or did some measuring. Or in your case try to put them on.

Check out Rock auto for a caliper rebuild kit or a local part store.