H&R Springs and camber "?"

[b-morr]

Will I need a camber kit with H&R Sport Springs? I will be using Tokico shocks.

[PieEyedPiper]

I highly suggest that you use one in the front for optimal alignment, but you will absolutely need one for the rear. The DIY washer and bolt setup is perfect for this.

[b-morr]

Just curious, would it be the same for H&R OE's?

[PieEyedPiper]

No. I'd say that with the ~1 inch drop the OE's will give you, you wont need a camber kit up front. It should land you a nice negative 1* or so of camber just from adding the springs. However, I still like the idea of having a kit simply for nice, complete adjustment.

A rear camber kit will still be required.

[Artago]

Originally Posted by PieEyedPiper

No. I'd say that with the ~1 inch drop the OE's will give you, you wont need a camber kit up front. It should land you a nice negative 1* or so of camber just from adding the springs. However, I still like the idea of having a kit simply for nice, complete adjustment.

A rear camber kit will still be required.

What about the Sports? Same deal?

Thanks,

Tom

[DGajre777]

Originally Posted by Artago

What about the Sports? Same deal?

Thanks,

Tom

No. The average drop for the H&D sports in 1.7"F and 1.4"R. You'll need an alignment kit in the front and some more washers or an alignment kit in the rear.

On average a 1" drop will give you 1 degree on negative camber. TOE is more important than camber and toe goes out of spec after a drop, so you'll need an alignment after you drop your car.

[Artago]

Originally Posted by DGajre777

No. The average drop for the H&D sports in 1.7"F and 1.4"R. You'll need an alignment kit in the front and some more washers or an alignment kit in the rear.

On average a 1" drop will give you 1 degree on negative camber. TOE is more important than camber and toe goes out of spec after a drop, so you'll need an alignment after you drop your car.

So if you get the OE's then there is enough TOE adjustment left on the stock setup to bring it back into spec but if you get the SPORTS then the drop is larger and there isn't enough TOE adjustment left on the stock setup to bring it back to spec so you have to get a camber kit, correct?

Thanks,

Tom

EDIT: Sorry for the dumb questions but I'm just trying to figure all this out.

[DGajre777]

Originally Posted by Artago

So if you get the OE's then there is enough TOE adjustment left on the stock setup to bring it back into spec but if you get the SPORTS then the drop is larger and there isn't enough TOE adjustment left on the stock setup to bring it back to spec so you have to get a camber kit, correct?.

I have no idea. I've never had H&R springs on a car. You can get away with 1 degree of negative camber in the front without an alignment kit, if your toe is in spec - is the point that I was trying to make.

I have Eibach Pros in my AWD with a 1" drop, no camber kit in the front but I have RRE's kit for the rears.

[Artago]

Originally Posted by DGajre777

I have no idea. I've never had H&R springs on a car. You can get away with 1 degree of negative camber in the front without an alignment kit, if your toe is in spec - is the point that I was trying to make.

I have Eibach Pros in my AWD with a 1" drop, no camber kit in the front but I have RRE's kit for the rears.

Did you get the TOE aligned at a shop after the install?

Tom

[PieEyedPiper]

Don't worry about your toe. Of course it will be out of spec after lowering, but not only is there no kit for adjusting your toe, but the alignment shop will have no trouble getting it back to spec using your existing equipment.

[Artago]

Originally Posted by PieEyedPiper

Don't worry about your toe. Of course it will be out of spec after lowering, but not only is there no kit for adjusting your toe, but the alignment shop will have no trouble getting it back to spec using your existing equipment.

Perfect. Thanks.

I'm hoping to get the H&R OE's so I'll need a rear camber kit but no front... or should I get the front as well?

Tom

[DGajre777]

Originally Posted by Artago

Did you get the TOE aligned at a shop after the install?

Tom

Yes, my toe was brought back to factory specs after I installed the shocks/springs. On 2Gs - toe can be adjusted, camber can be (if you get an adjustable kit) but you can't adjust caster.

As for the front camber kit on the H&R OEs, it is personal choice. You don't need it. I run -ve 1 degree camber on my front tires with Eibach Pros and have ran it that way for the last 2 years.

[Artago]

Originally Posted by DGajre777

Yes, my toe was brought back to factory specs after I installed the shocks/springs. On 2Gs - toe can be adjusted, camber can be (if you get an adjustable kit) but you can't adjust caster.

As for the front camber kit on the H&R OEs, it is personal choice. You don't need it. I run -ve 1 degree camber on my front tires with Eibach Pros and have ran it that way for the last 2 years.

Is Caster a problem because it can't be adjusted?

What type of camber kit do you recommend? Adjustable Ball joints, Eccentric bushings, or Anchor bolt type?

Tom

[PieEyedPiper]

Eccentric bushings FTW.

No, caster won't be a problem. Since you have a 95, your caster should be ~ +4.5* on each side already, so you won't even have to mess with flipping the inboard driver's compression bushing to get equal caster, like the 2gb guys do.

Or, be like me, and get the SPC adjustable upper control arms that will allow all kinds of adjustment, including caster.

[asian312]

H&R OE springs, no front camber adjustment (no a fan of the elliptical bushings) and ~1/8" worth of washers out back. Drop it off at an alignment shop and call it a day.

[PieEyedPiper]

Thanks for chiming in, asian312, someone with direct experience from owning such a setup.

I only say eccentric bushings for a couple of reasons:

a) to uphold jtoby's fine work here in the handling forum (he very much preferred the bushings)
b) the ingalls-type kits, such as adjustable balljoints and anchorbolt types, can potentially reduce suspension travel and cause the upper control arm to smack into the inner fender well.

[b-morr]

Thanks for all the replies and conversation about this. I don't know how big of a drop I really want, so I'm torn between sports and oe's. Would one spring wear out faster than the other. I would think sports would wear out before the oe's also maybe even the struts, ever though tokicos were made to handle lower springs.

[Artago]

I'm going for the OE's because I don't want a huge drop or bumpy ride. My car is a DD so I wanna keep it drivable but still stiffen it up a bit.

Tom

[asian312]

Originally Posted by PieEyedPiper

Thanks for chiming in, asian312, someone with direct experience from owning such a setup.

I only say eccentric bushings for a couple of reasons:

a) to uphold jtoby's fine work here in the handling forum (he very much preferred the bushings)
b) the ingalls-type kits, such as adjustable balljoints and anchorbolt types, can potentially reduce suspension travel and cause the upper control arm to smack into the inner fender well.

Anytime, that's what a forum is for Just wish I was on more often.

I agree with the both your statments, and believe me I had to go to great lengths to make the SPC arms work (option B). I've pondered about trying the eccentric bushings with a set of stock UCAs, but I'm set for now.

For the OP, here's a pic of the H&R OE springs with stock sized tires (215/50/17)

[Artago]

^^^^ Sweet!!!!! That's the exact drop I'm looking for.

Thanks,

Tom