1G AWD drift?

[RipperXX]

You know the one thing that has kept me going with my Talon is the dream of drifting it. And after a few down hill sharp corners on a stock 16yr old suspention and not near enough skill trying e-break drift. I realised that it's just a crazy attempt.



So my real question with a bit more power (if you look at my current mods) it's nothing to point out but I have 720cc injectors DSM link and evo 16g turbo with a better exhaust setup planned. Would it be worth it to put some money into the suspention, like a coil over setup sway bars, strut towers, toe elm etc. etc. etc. a crap load of money into the suspention?

I know the 2G's make better Auto X cars and the 1G is more suted for drag raceing, but I am finding drag raceing really boaring. In my area there is nothing but curvy roads and Mt. No where to really drag race except the track and highways and im not a huge fan of flying down the highway in top gear at full throttle. Not that drifting is any safer.


I ask because I have been in search of a RWD car for a long time now, but I can't seem to find anything that will even come close to tempting me away from my Talon except an Evo Hell I have even been makeing a database of all afordable "populer" cars lately compaireing all there specs, strengths and weakness's. So far I have a spread sheet compairing over 30 cars, there acceleration times, weights, drive trains, engines etc. And still the only care I am even takeing any slight entrest in is an 1988 Turbo II RX-7 & S14. Im thinking the weight figures might be a bit off since I have only been able to find the curbe weight of all the cars and I dont beleave my 90 TSi only weighs 2800lb's but the sites I have found listing the weights list the TSi at 2800lb (curb weight) surely it's not this light? I know it doesn't feel like it at all. But maybe thats just the stock suspention?

 

[jtmcinder]

Please explain how one drifts an AWD with a 50/50 center diff.

- Jtoby

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

i've drifted my old talon a few times, although not all were done on purpose. The thing about doin it awd style is that its VERY and i cant elaborate on that word enough, very quick to slide and recover. If you can drop a gear and kick the back out quick enough you may be able to pull a 2-4 second one off pending on the size of the turn.

 

[jfdid]

You guys are nuts. Drifting is wicked in an AWD, you just need the power. EG: drifting your stock AWD talon on snow....just amplify the power, and you have dry pavement drifting. The handling and reactions will be quicker but you'll certainly be able to do it.

 

[cait sith]

Please explain how one drifts an AWD with a 50/50 center diff.

- Jtoby

Other than being JUN with their Hyper Lemon Evo 5, I have no idea.

If you have to ask how much money you need to invest in an AWD car to make it "drift", you don't have enough.

 

[ECTurboDSM]

Basically you will have dumped a huge sum of money into a car that turns out to be a pathetic drift car. Can you drift it? Yes. Can it drift well? No.

 

[zephyr_8]

my car has kicked its tail out a few times on pavement, but mostly that was trail braking into a corner then nailing it to hold the back end out. The thing is that the car slides at a high speed, i have never been able to get it to "drift" at slower speeds. At the speeds it would kick its tail out, i was usually trying to get it back in quickly because i didnt want to spin/hit something. I'm am not a fan of sliding around at 80+ on the street, i'd rather be on a track, and even then i would rather take a corner fast, instead of just sideways. If you want to "drift" just go drive around in gravel/snow/dirt, its more fun. I personally think drifters are somewhat impressive but i think it is just more of a show thing. If you want to drift, get a rwd, or a racing go kart. The kart teaches more driver skill anyway. The skills i learned from my friends arrow and birels saved my butt many times when I went into a corner a bit fast in my talon. You could always get a 35/65 cusco diff.

 

[cb3016]

It is all in the physics, i don't know as much about cars as i'd like to, but what I do know is physics, if you want to drift you have to beable to manipulate weight transfer. To drift that talon you will need to be light weight, I mean no carpet, no dash light weight. when going at zone speed of 100mph (not that u drift at that speed just easyer to use even numbers that are rounded) and breaking hard say for the sake of this that you have a perfectly ballanced car 50/50. with 3,000 lbs of mass with 1500 on the front and 1500 on the rear, when breaking say you take off 650 off of the rear, now you add in force while turning, if your angle is great enough to cause enough force you will slide your rear end the same way you added force to. Or you could do it the old fashion way, high acceleration, turn the wheel and start high force, The force has to be greater then the traction. at that point the cars mass is moving faster then the wheels so you will slide.

o o Car with no breaking and no acceleration
o o


O O Car Breaking
o o

o o Car Accelerating
O O

Look up Mario Andretti's Law he describes it better then I can. RWD is more like the lazy easyer way to do it, they have to master technique, you have to master technique, and a bit of physics, Andretti's law says how fast you can go into a turn based of speed and physics based on the degree of the corner.

 

[jtmcinder]

Other than being JUN with their Hyper Lemon Evo 5, I have no idea.

How sure are you that the Hyper Lemon is still a 50/50 center?

- Jtoby

 

[dnhieu]

How sure are you that the Hyper Lemon is still a 50/50 center?

- Jtoby

is no one listening to this man? i am a fan of drifting but i know i dont have a drift car so i dont go around drifting it. if you want to drift the windy roads you got buy a 240 put some mods on it and start drifting. pulling the ebrake in an awd while its moving is very hard the drivetrain and SHOULD NOT be attempted.

 

[RipperXX]

Well after 3 yr's of owning it, back when it was near stock I did ONCE get it to actualy drift on a flat area useing weight transfer, I was pissed and did some stupid shit back when I was younger. Anyway it was more of a one time thing, I dont think I could replicate it any time soon. However I somewhat remember what I did, I was takeing a hard right, the car was understeering I made the turn, next I had a SHAARP left, just let off the throttle and turned and way she went slid around so gracefully.

However that was on a public road, and like I said I have since grown up a bit, I dont like the idea of drag or drifting on public roads, HOWEVER, me and a few of my friends know of paticuler place's that are closed off at some times of the yr where it's perfect for it.....



I know trying to use a 1G for Auto X or drifting isn't the best choice, but it's persisly because of that I want to use it. Plus while I actualy DO like the S14, I dont want to go that route because it just seems like the ricey thing people are doing right now, and I never have been one to fallow the crowed..

Basicly I love my Talon, and I love Auto X & drifting, I beleave AWD car's have a big advantage if setup right on Auto X corse's and just handeling in general. But I also want to drift.

 

[jtmcinder]

There is a difference between (a) having the tail step out and powering out of it and (b) drifting. If you want to drift your AWD DSM, get a 35/65 center diff and don't put the VC back in. And with that, I give up.

- Jtoby

 

[cait sith]

How sure are you that the Hyper Lemon is still a 50/50 center?

- Jtoby

I"m actually not, but from the data that they give, it sounds more like they use the old 4 Gear Spider Cusco center/Cusco 1 way front, Cusco RS rear (1.5 way) than the Tarmac's setup. They're not really that clear. I suppose I can always mail them....

But... Judging by their video at Hokkenheim, and the lack of countersteer he gives/technique, it's pretty much just extremely high entry speed, and then raw power that's propelling him in a scandanavian flick.

http://www.exvitermini.com/movies/junevo0.mpg
http://www.exvitermini.com/movies/junevo1.mpg
http://www.exvitermini.com/movies/junevo2.mpg

Notice how he countersteers at the beginning, then starts pulling the wheel into the turn, then back centered.

The Jun EVO is also 1) Much stiffer than a DSM. 2) Much lighter. 3) Very overpowered 4) Has a much much more experienced driver, to be able to do this kind of shinanigans.

Basically if you're trying to do this crap at all with a car that has less than 400 whp, any of the stock diffs left, and don't have a suspension setup that is more than "springs and shocks", you're going to be dreamland.

 

[jtmcinder]

Yeah, that's a Scandanavian Flick at entry. I can't be sure from the video, but it looks like there is only a bit more tire smoke in the rear than the front and all four are clearly being cooked, so that's probably a 50/50. Not the sort of drifting that is currently so popular, but actually a lot more impressive from the driver point of view. It's basically low-traction drifting being done on tarmac. Cool. Thanks for the links.

- Jtoby

 

[02BLUR]

Every time it rains, I get excited because I purposely go out and try to see how sideways I can get. Usually on-ramps are the place thats good to practice, when no one is around.

I've never had any massive drifts, maybe several ones that last a couple seconds, but it sure is fun.

gotta watch the front end!

 

[cait sith]

Yeah, that's a Scandanavian Flick at entry. I can't be sure from the video, but it looks like there is only a bit more tire smoke in the rear than the front and all four are clearly being cooked, so that's probably a 50/50. Not the sort of drifting that is currently so popular, but actually a lot more impressive from the driver point of view. It's basically low-traction drifting being done on tarmac. Cool. Thanks for the links.

- Jtoby

No problem. He won that drift tournament also with the second run (video 02).

BTW: the driver of that car is Katsuo Kobayashi, who currently drives the Cusco Subaru Impreza in Super GT (Formerly JGTC)'s GT300 class.

http://supergt.net/supergt/2005/05team/05driver_data/05tm077d1en.htm

As far as drifting/driving, you'd be hard pressed to immitate that AWD angle what Mr. Kobayashi did without previous RWD drifting experience.

 

[RipperXX]

Well as of right now (not sure about when I get back from Iraq) I think im still going to try and use the Talon, partly because I dont want to go with an S14 even though I like them, It just seems to me it's becomeing the new civic all to quick.

Also like I think I already said, exactly because it's not the best platform or easiest to get to drift I want to try it. Who knows though, if I come back from Iraq with enough money I might just buy an Evo, TT 300Z or something.

 

[boostedinaz]

Plus while I actualy DO like the S14, I dont want to go that route because it just seems like the ricey thing people are doing right now, and I never have been one to fallow the crowed..

This sentance makes me laugh. You dont want to follow the popular crowd with a car but you will follow the popular crowd with the entire event.

Dont drift you AWD car. Even if you get to a point were you can actually do it with the car it self you will never be as good doing it as a properly setup RWD car. I can understand wanting to keep a car but keeping a car that is horrible at a certain sport is just dumb.

 

[ECTurboDSM]

This sentance makes me laugh. You dont want to follow the popular crowd with a car but you will follow the popular crowd with the entire event.

Dont drift you AWD car. Even if you get to a point were you can actually do it with the car it self you will never be as good doing it as a properly setup RWD car. I can understand wanting to keep a car but keeping a car that is horrible at a certain sport is just dumb.

So entering my NASCAR in a F1 GP isn't a good idea? I like the paint scheme we have going on the NASCAR so much though.

In regards to the original poster, I thought I saw you mention autox at one point as well. I would strongly suggest going that route if you insist on keeping the Talon. Also check out a track school and you will probably forget all about drifting.

 

[JrCRXHF]

You guys are nuts. Drifting is wicked in an AWD, you just need the power. EG: drifting your stock AWD talon on snow....just amplify the power, and you have dry pavement drifting. The handling and reactions will be quicker but you'll certainly be able to do it.

i second this just go play in the snow or wet pavement. but you will need some big power to do it on the dry.

 

[RipperXX]

Well I am planning on going to a race/driveing school when I get back if I have the time. And I have always wanted to setup my talon for Auto X but there aren't any tracks around my area to race on. The closest thing would be "Road Atlanta" which is a VERY good track, but I dont think I would call that auto x. Plus im not sure if you can just go race on it when you feel like it.


The reasion I want to drift isn't to fallow the crowed, it just seems so hard to do with a AWD car. It's just the challenge of it. Id like to see if I could get good at it just in the intrest of seeing if I could control the car well enough to do it.

However I know it's not the fastest way around a corner, at least not in a AWD car. And the main reasion I dont want to use a RWD i guess is because I think what most people consider drifting in a RWD car is just powerslides. I only think of it as drifting if all four tires are skiding.



Anyway I have alot to think about betwine now and when I get back from Iraq. Theres 5 main cars im thinking about. Im trying to weight there strong and weak points along with looks to decide and it's just so hard to pick one. I can easily tell which two are the fastest in general and one of the two gets the most attention (being a Corvett) but also cost a good but more by the time you factor in insurance. But the 5 cars are as fallows

300Z TT
RX-7 (FD)
Corvett
Evo IX
Supra MK IV TT

Basicly im tired of haveing an older unatractive (in many peoples openion) car. I want something that handels but is also sexy and well known for it's speed. But at the same time I want to dump loads of money into my 1G. Just going to require alot of thinking I supose.


However one things for sure, I'm not about to just get rid of the 1G, it's in to good of shape and I have spent to much on it to just sell it.

Oh well thanks for your openions guys now I just have alot of thinking to do and money to save .

 

[r6_philly]

I too want to start drifting. Since I only have a 1g FWD and a AWD, I Guess I would have to try to make the AWD work. It is cool and refreshing to hear someone wants to make something work even though everyone keep saying "don't do it it sucks".

I originally thought about roadracing/autoX, since I make a living roadracing motorcycles (I am pro licensed). But after driving on the track a few times I realized it is just not as fun and exciting as racing motorcycles (And not as fast...) so I turned my attention on drifting. It is fun to slide around a roadrace track... I would love to get a RWD but the S14 is so popular right now I really don't want to bother with it.

I will try to make the AWD work too, and I will post the results... The car still need to be built first maybe I will take the FWD to a autoX soon. It sucks at turing but at least I know how to get around a track

 

[RipperXX]

Pro license, now how do I get one of thoughs


Yea I'm still thinking, now I'm thinking a bit different as far as car selection, dsm is still there though, so is the Evo seems like the saying becomes more true over time. "Once a DSMer always a DSMer" and I'll likely never get rid of that 1G short of totaling it. I'm focusing on the MK IV right now, although I have always wondered how an FC with a turbo 2.0L engine would preform.


ah well we will see what I get in a yr or so . Until then just more thinking, because whatever I decide to go with I'm going to invest a crap load of money in it in an attempt to build my dream car.