Torching out bushings

[trbotaln]

I am interested in getting the Energy Suspension bushings for the rear control arms on my car. My question is that I know you have to either torch or press the old bushings out with a hydrolic press, but do you have to have the new bushings pressed in or do you just pop them in. I think the energy suspension bushings are 2 piece.

 

[MackZ24]

Alright, I have a 1G, and am in the process of installing all the E.S. poly bushings, so the process should basically be the same, and hopefully I can explain it a little better to you. With the rear control arms, you will need to burn out the old rubber bushings, but the press is not needed for the bushings themselves, it is needed for the metal sleeves that the bushings are in. You will need to press these metal sleeves out, and then the (sometimes) 2 piece E.S. bushings will slide right in, without the use of a press, where the metal sleeves used to be.

 

[leet]

We cut the metal sleeve which encases the OEM bushings using a hacksaw, it made for MUCH easier removal when put on the bearing press.

All the ES bushings I've installed on my car so far have been one piece, I believe the Prothane's are two piece.

 

[jtmcinder]

The new ES bushings for 2Gs are two-piece, maybe because of all the bitching about the old design (one-piece).

- Jtoby

 

[MNGSX]

Installing a one piece bushing is like 100x easier than removing the old one 1000x easier if you actually tortch the old one....

Go to home depot and get a husky air hammer if you don't have an air hammer already.

I used an airhammer and a pointed spud to push on the edge of the old bushing. Most of them just pushed out. If you get a real stiff bushing split or curl the bushing inward with the air hammer..

When I did mine I tried the burn and cut... then I broke out the air hammer... You can air hammer out 5 in the time it takes to burn one.

 

[trbotaln]

thanx for all of the replies guys. So let me get this straight, the only thing I need a press for is to press in the metal insert into the bushing.

 

[MNGSX]

You need a press to push in the ES bushings if you have the old style (1 piece) bushing...

I just used a large diameter section of "all-thread" rod, nuts and some washers. I also lubed the edge of the bushing that was getting pressed in. Some u-joint or other light duty automotive presses might work too.

If they are the two piece you dont need to worry.

To get the old ones out use an air hammer, fire or hydro press. The factory metal sleeved bushings are too tough to get out any other way. I'd just air hammer at the sleeves untill they pop out.

 

[quiksilver38]

Putting in the new E.S. poly's is super easy with there 2 piece design just use a lot of that lube stuff so they dont squeak going down the road

 

[Turningturbo25]

I dunno if the 2g bushing are even close to the 1gs but i have burned, pressed, and drilled 1g bushing out...And unless you have a press at your fingertips i would have to say drilling is the easyest and cleanest way. After i drilled bushing out i cut the outter metal bushing with a hack saw and it will basicly fall off. Even if you have a press it was a pain to try to get the control arms laying on the press just right.

 

[LilGdsm]

Read the directions entirely, One of the bushings on my front kit required the metal sleeve to stay. I made the mistake of cutting it out like all the other ones, just to find out that the bushing bounced around inside.

A friend machined up some new sleeves and all was good.

 

[bjones18]

What is your objective in using aftermarket bushings? Thorttle on/off toe response? toe-in braking? camber compliance? or a pretty color.... Believe it or not...natural rubber is the most durable bushing material out there. If you are looking to stiffen up the suspension install heim-joints and expect the increase in road noise.

Very few people would choose a new turbo based on it's color.

For your suspension there are a multitude of responses you may be trying to adjust, not the least of which is steady state and transient understeer. You need to model the vehicle response, or measure it on a kinematics and compliance machine $$$$$$$$$$. The alternate is buy a multitude of bushings at different rates and "tune" your suspension (very time consuming).

If your objective is to look cool... red bushings might be your thing.

 

[Turningturbo25]

What is your objective in using aftermarket bushings? Thorttle on/off toe response? toe-in braking? camber compliance? or a pretty color.... Believe it or not...natural rubber is the most durable bushing material out there. If you are looking to stiffen up the suspension install heim-joints and expect the increase in road noise.

Very few people would choose a new turbo based on it's color.

For your suspension there are a multitude of responses you may be trying to adjust, not the least of which is steady state and transient understeer. You need to model the vehicle response, or measure it on a kinematics and compliance machine $$$$$$$$$$. The alternate is buy a multitude of bushings at different rates and "tune" your suspension (very time consuming).

If your objective is to look cool... red bushings might be your thing.

Someone sounds a like they dont like the ES bushings. BTW they come in black too..

 

[WombatTSi]

What is your objective in using aftermarket bushings? Thorttle on/off toe response? toe-in braking? camber compliance? or a pretty color.... Believe it or not...natural rubber is the most durable bushing material out there. If you are looking to stiffen up the suspension install heim-joints and expect the increase in road noise.

Very few people would choose a new turbo based on it's color.

For your suspension there are a multitude of responses you may be trying to adjust, not the least of which is steady state and transient understeer. You need to model the vehicle response, or measure it on a kinematics and compliance machine $$$$$$$$$$. The alternate is buy a multitude of bushings at different rates and "tune" your suspension (very time consuming).

If your objective is to look cool... red bushings might be your thing.

Natural rubber is a very durable bushing material; however, it also gives a lot, adding excessive flex (especially when the rubber starts wearing out in a 12+ year old car). Maybe its not the best way to go about stiffening things up, but its relativley easy, plus in addition to anti-roll bars, adjustable shocks, and stiffer springs (that are all readily available, and easily tunable) its makes a pretty good solution, without sacrificing that much comfort (I actually feel more comfortable in my stiffend up car, but thats just me I guess)

 

[bjones18]

It is not about what I like. As forces are applied (fore-aft, lateral, vertical, braking) a suspension will respond with toe, caster, camber change. Generally stiffer is better for camber (reduced compliance). Throttle on/off toe response, and braking toe response is not as simple. Why tie your vehicle up with big sta-bars?

I agree, worn out bushings should be replaced. However, I would not replace perfectly fine rubber bushings for "high performance" handling based on an aftermarket kit.

Many kids want to improve their car by "bolting" on a colorful part, similar to installing a rear wing on a front wheel drive car.

 

[Turningturbo25]

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Would this be a case where they should be replaced.....Plus i am replacing them with black bushings

 

[cait sith]

Many kids want to improve their car by "bolting" on a colorful part, similar to installing a rear wing on a front wheel drive car.

You're sounding pretty high and mighty there. Are you implying that the only vehicles that can benefit from aerodynamic aids placed on the rear section of a vehicle are ones that feature a driveshaft to the rear?

Or are you ignoring aerodynamic physics and just spouting off unneeded "anti-rice"rhetoric?

 

[na90dsm]

yea thats liek sayign a fwd car cant benefit from a wheelie bar out back

 

[Turningturbo25]

You're sounding pretty high and mighty there. Are you implying that the only vehicles that can benefit from aerodynamic aids placed on the rear section of a vehicle are ones that feature a driveshaft to the rear?

Or are you ignoring aerodynamic physics and just spouting off unneeded "anti-rice"rhetoric?

This is not the point of this thread but 99.9% of the wings put on DSM are useless and added in bad flavor

 

[na90dsm]

you do have a point though, those double decker frigin 14 inch tall rice wings do nto help anythign and are they for nothing. i think all dsm;s should not have a wing. i never liked wings and never will.



bak on topic, when i did my leafs in my jeep i used a map torch and a really big hammer and my bushings melted out. they were the original busings from 79. yea that didnt wanan move

 

[NDgsx]

Why tie your vehicle up with big sta-bars?

To increase total roll stiffness without a natural frequency over 2 cycles per second, so that your car does not require excessive static negative camber to keep more of the contact patch on the ground while cornering. Some people like to run extremely high spring rates, I prefer not to so that the suspension can adequetly absorb bumps. That's what the dampers and springs are there to do in the first place, isolate the chasis from the road. I can live with decreased articulation.

I agree, worn out bushings should be replaced. However, I would not replace perfectly fine rubber bushings for "high performance" handling based on an aftermarket kit.

On a car engineered with goal towards handling (M3, Evo, RX7, etc..) I would tend to agree with you, however DSMs are a mass-market car. Reducing NHV is more important on a mass market car. The compliance due to bushing deflection can require extremely high static negative camber, which is bad for both braking and acceleration.
That being said I do agree with you that polyurathane is not a very good material for suspension bushings. On pivot points that operate in one plane a nylon sleeve with an aluminum tube offers less friction and greater stability. On points that pivot in two planes a spherical bearing is required.
Nylon points:
1G front control arms
2G upper control arms F&R
Spherical bearings:
1G all three in the rear
2G front lower control arms
2G front damper mount in lower arm

I'm not sure about the rear lower on 2Gs, I can't remember off the top of my head how they are setup.

All that being said, I have poly bushings in my car, because I'm cheap and lazy

 

[bjones18]

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Would this be a case where they should be replaced.....Plus i am replacing them with black bushings

I can see tremendous damage from the bushing removal. The corrosion is from the metal substrate.... Sandblast and paint the arm before installing the new bushing.

I'm sure your new urethane bushings will perform fine.

BTW... corrosion will not stop when you push in a new bushing. The interface will collect (wick) water and salt water; providing additional rust. Sucks doesn't it. Aluminum or the original pretreatment/e-coat is the best.

 

[Turningturbo25]

I can see tremendous damage from the bushing removal. The corrosion is from the metal substrate.... Sandblast and paint the arm before installing the new bushing.

I'm sure your new urethane bushings will perform fine.

BTW... corrosion will not stop when you push in a new bushing. The interface will collect (wick) water and salt water; providing additional rust. Sucks doesn't it. Aluminum or the original pretreatment/e-coat is the best.

You have a 1g or a 2g? And That is exactly how it looked when it was on. The damage from removal is all on the other side.