ECMlink 3rd gear pull

[95ttalontsi]

could someone give me a little advise on my log its a 3rd gear pull. Ive been learning how to calibrate and tune and want to make sure im doing this somewhat correctly. Ive read all the dsmlink pages and the mafcalibration page.

this was HX35 bep .55 housing, FP 4'' intake, dsmlink v2, 93 pump gas running 21 psi

also for boost leaks how exacly does a boost leak induce knock? just curious cause i have a small leak around my TB that i cant find and was just wondering if that would cause my knock problems in the higher RPM.
thanks

forgot to upload log.

 

[turboglenn]

boost leak usually don't cause knock, but a rich condition unless your SD, how are your calibrations, are you running 35psi?? and do you have a WB02 logged accurately. it's so hard to help when there's so much problems with DSMlink and AEM talking to each other (their parts anyway) DSMlink is kck ass, but there's gotta be a solve for this soime where soon, I just log raw AEM 0-5v signal and convert it using math..

as for PSI you're running do you have a MAP you can log it with in ECMlink?

I love tuning and helping other learn and get tunes riught so get somemore info and i'll try, but there's peoplel here better than me with that system, I mainly know haltech, FAST, ACCELL, AUTRONIC< and other pure standa lones

 

[boost97gst]

Thats a strange and very abrubt spike of knock. Afrs are good too.... hmmmm, intake temp is over 100 so that doesnt help, dont expect to get great pulls in this heat wave. Im going through the same problems.
Well, since i dont know much about v2, i would have to say at around the 2000hz timing slider you need to take that down. Thats my only explanation. It doesnt creep up like normal knock so id pull some timing out and do another pull. Try to do a night time pull and youll be happier, trust me. Ambient temps lately are killers

 

[95ttalontsi]

boost leak usually don't cause knock, but a rich condition unless your SD, how are your calibrations, are you running 35psi?? and do you have a WB02 logged accurately. it's so hard to help when there's so much problems with DSMlink and AEM talking to each other (their parts anyway) DSMlink is kck ass, but there's gotta be a solve for this soime where soon, I just log raw AEM 0-5v signal and convert it using math..
Using aem wideband logged throug rear 02 input.
as for PSI you're running do you have a MAP you can log it with in ECMlink?
Using a gm 3 bar logged

I love tuning and helping other learn and get tunes riught so get somemore info and i'll try, but there's peoplel here better than me with that system, I mainly know haltech, FAST, ACCELL, AUTRONIC< and other pure standa lones

Thanks. I just want to make sure im on the right track. Also is a better tune atainable with V3 over V2? And what would cause sharp knock spikes like that?

 

[Calan]

Also is a better tune atainable with V3 over V2?

Yes.

And what would cause sharp knock spikes like that?

That is quite a bit of timing at that RPM and 93 pump, depending on your air temperature. Pull timing a degree or two at 5500rpm, and 2-3 degrees from 6000 on up. If that gets rid of the knock, try adding a degree back in from 6k up and see what happens.

 

[My1GLaser]

What plugs are you running? You should be running 7s IMO.

The coolant temps and IAT and a 5 sec pull probably caused it to preignite. The airflow was still climbing and it probably just became too much in the combustion chamber. Pull a couple degrees like Glenn said and try again. Get your temps lower if possible. They aren't horrible, but it doesn't help...

 

[95ttalontsi]

I finally upgraded to v3 and have been calibrating it and getting fuel trims in check all day and I think they are as good as im going to be able to get them. Here is a 3rd gear pull up to like 6500 rpm, I let off early. Im using the evo 8 timing map that i modded a little bit. Im logging AFR and GM 3 bar its in the logs. Please check this log out and give me some insight on how im doing. Thanks alot Mike

 

[95ttalontsi]

anyone? ive posted this on the link forums and no one has answered yet either. I think im going to just bring it up to stm and have them just do the whole thing. I just got too many things going on to keep messin with this. My MAFCOMP settings are whats confusing me they are very high but my wideband and AFR est is almost dead on but my boost est is almost 6 psi off the whole pull, something dont seem right

 

[Calan]

If you are having to add that much to MAFComp evenly across the board, your global fuel is probably off due to discrepancies in base pressure, actual injector flow, etc. You can add fuel back in with global and then reduce the MAFComp sliders.

With that said, you may just want to leave it alone....the calibration looks really good as it is, so you you should be able to start leaning it out and adding timing to get some power out of it.

BTW - Please rename your wideband to "Wideband", and the map sensor to "MAP". It makes it much easier to review logs if we are all standardized somewhat.

It would also help to set the min and max properties of certain items to specific values, per this article. I recommend the following:

Wideband & AFRatioEst: Min = -4.7, Max = 21.2
WBFactor: Min = -120, Max = 40
CombinedFT: Min = -40, Max = 40
MAP & BoostEst: Min = -20, Max = 60 (unless you need to look at vacuum for some reason).
Timing: Min = -10, Max = 50
InjDuty: Min = 0, Max = 100
Knock: Min = 0, Max = 16
LoadFactor: Min = 0, Max = 4
RPM: Min = 0, Max = 8000

 

[95ttalontsi]

I posted this on the link forums and i was advised to drop my mafcomp table 12% from 1800 and up htz because boostest doesnt line up. I want to go SD now that i have V3 so i want to get my airflow correct so i can get my base SD map. So if my afr lines up so well with afr est then why dont boostest line up with logged boost? Im learning so much about this and it is getting easier and easier. Thanks for everyones help

 

[My1GLaser]

Your AFRatioEst is based off your OpenLoopMaxOct table. The est is just parroting what the DA table is calling for. At least that's what mine does. I never try to get them to line up. I would rather have my airflow accurate so I calibrate the airflow sliders.

You're actually off from 400hz and up. You're 15% high at 1000 hz, about 9% from 1100-1400hz, and then 12% from 1400hz up. I didn't do all the calculations from 1400 hz+ but here is where I got the info to figure it. DSMlink MAS/MAF Calibration Page

Keep in mind that if you pull your airflow sliders down 12%, you will be running quite a bit leaner than 10.7:1.

What inj & base fuel pressure are you running?

Why did you pull so much timing compared to the first log you posted last month?

 

[95ttalontsi]

Ok that makes sense. Im running fic 850 injectors (so i was told) they are engraved (fic850s) on the side. at 43 psi base pressure. So later im going to take your advice and calibrate boostest and go that route. The log from last month was lower boost and was on V2. New log is V3 with evo 8 maps loaded.

 

[My1GLaser]

Is your MAS hacked? I know the low Hz would be the opposite that you have if it was hacked, but I am trying to determine why you have to add so much airflow to reach your desired AFR.

Like Calan said, the fuel related reasons are either your base FP is low or your inj aren't actually 850s.

If you weren't going SD then I would leave it alone.

FWIW, you should be able to get away with a good bit more timing than you are running now! I ran 18* on pump gas with 9:1 CR pistons running 25psi on an 18g before I switched to E-85.

 

[95ttalontsi]

Nope stock 2g mas. All honeycombs inside all i have done is backed out screw flush. So should i calibrate boostest and then tune global to get afrs in check. Im going to check fuel pressure again and maybe send injectors out to be flow tested. On the side they are engraved fic 850 but they are precision injectors and the last numbers on top are 43. I found in a search that those numbers indicate they are 880s

 

[My1GLaser]

baseinjectordata [ECMTuning - wiki]

The wiki says to set the global to -45 for Precision 880s. Plus you should probably change your deadtime slightly. I haven't seen your LTFT Lo or Hi so I can't really suggest deadtime adjustments, but I'm basing it off their suggestion of 420.

Neither of those will make up for the 20% added to your MAFComp though...

 

[95ttalontsi]

Im going to check my base pressure. I had it on my talon which had the walbro 255 and was rewired and it was set to 43psi, but since I got my eclipse I took the pump and FPR from the talon and installed them in the new car. I dont have the fuel pump rewire done on the eclipse, so i wonder if im actually at a lower pressure. Ill check that in the morning, I did take a look at the injectors and they have the fuel injection clinic sticker on them with 850 engraved on the side but they have the precision number on top that states they are 880s. So I dont know what I really have. One of these days I will have this all fiqured out and will have a great running car.

 

[Calan]

You're actually off from 400hz and up. You're 15% high at 1000 hz, about 9% from 1100-1400hz, and then 12% from 1400hz up.

Which log(s) are you looking at? In "3rd gear pull V3", his target AFR and wideband are dead on....in fact, they are closer than most logs I've seen.

 

[95ttalontsi]

Which log(s) are you looking at? In "3rd gear pull V3", his target AFR and wideband are dead on....in fact, they are closer than most logs I've seen.

what should I do then?

I want everything to be like your sticky page where everything is correct, not just a combination that "works" . And there is some reason as to why my airflow sliders are so high. So I want to fiqure that out. If my boost est is way off doesnt that effect where on the timing and fuel maps where under load factor where it chooses its values from. ECU thinks im running almost 30psi when actual pressure is around 23psi, so ecu is targeting higher load values that are incorrect where my timing is lower.

So my procedure for tommorow that im going to try is check my base fuel pressure and set it to 43psi using ecmlink to turn on fuel pump with engine off. Then im going to adjust airlow according to jeffsgst page using map sensor since that is a known value. Get boost est to match MAP. Then tune global so afr est and actual afr match. Then adjust deadtime and airflow to get idle back inline.
Would this be a good route to take?

Im also going to try contacting FIC to see if they have the specs on my injectors since they were engraved by them i wonder if they were sent out and tested by them as well.

And one more problem ive noticed is in the morning when I start the engine and just try to leave it runs really lean and I almost have to pump the gas and slowly release clutch to get moving. It only does it in the morning for about a minute then everything is fine again. The car runs great and dont really have any other complaints other than I know something is just not right.

 

[My1GLaser]

Which log(s) are you looking at? In "3rd gear pull V3", his target AFR and wideband are dead on....in fact, they are closer than most logs I've seen.

I was referring to his airflow in that log. Yes, I would agree that his WB and AFRatioEst are really close. If it was me, I would probably leave it alone and just deal with the uncalibrated airflow. He mentioned needing a good airflow map for SD (which I know nothing about) so it might behoove him to calibrate it. It will make a mess of the AFR until he determines why his BoostEst is so far off.

An idle log would help determine the cold start issue.

 

[95ttalontsi]

Ok I checked base pressure and its at 43 psi. I was messing around with global and i upped it to 41% and messed with fuel sliders a little bit and now it seems to idle absolutly perfect. Airflow per rev is .25, idle is set to 750rpm and it stays within 15 rpm of that with no hickups or small little pops. AFR est and wideband readings are also the same with about a +/- .3 while idling. Going to do some crusie to adjust maf comp allitle in closed loop, then adjust mafcomp to jeffsgst page and see how well everything matches up.

Im looking for target afr to be 11.5, wideband in log 11.5, 11.5 on wideband and for car to know how much boost is getting pumped into it at 100% VE. Ill post a 2 min. idle log that I did today when i get out of work.

I think im on the right track now.

 

[95ttalontsi]

Can someone check my log and let me know if im moving the right way in my tune and offer some suggestions. MAP and WIDEBAND are logged. Here is the pull I made today.

should I add some timing down low? Looks like I have to remove some up top though.

 

[My1GLaser]

Your tune looks pretty good. I wish my WB looked that smooth!!! You still have some calibrating to do if you want perfect airflow numbers. I know you're switching to SD and that's what you're shooting for. (I've never messed with SD)

What plugs are you running? How old is your knock sensor? Have you verified base timing with a timing light?

I don't see a good reason why your timing is so low, especially since your coolant and intake temps are much better now. Sure you're not running 87 or 89 octane?

I know every set up is different, but 4-8* of timing advance isn't enough to make good power IMO. Your 70-90mph acceleration times should be under 2 sec with that airflow and that turbo. Your timing should be in the low to mid teens even with 9:1 CR & pump at 26 psi. FWIW, I was running 18* with similar airflow numbers at 26-28 psi out of my 18g on pump gas. Maybe I just got lucky...

 

[95ttalontsi]

im using 93 octane fuel, ive decided on not going SD.
knock sensor has 65000 miles on it. It dont have black goo coming out of it but it does have small spot that looks kinda wet along the seam. For plugs im running bpr7es gapped @ .025. Base timing is set to 4* using adjustable timing light with the cam gear method. Im going to check my 70-90 times. Ive decided SD is not for me, too much to mess with and im not aiming for really high numbers. I want low 11s and around 450hp. Think I should buy a new knock sensor.

 

[My1GLaser]

I switched to BR7ES and was able to add 3* of timing a while back.

A set of 272 cams would make a big difference in your airflow with that turbo. It also reduces the dynamic compression due to the longer duration and overlap and you can run more timing.

I can attach a log of a 3rd gear pull when I was running about 26psi if you are interested. I have a 7 blade HX35, HKS 272s, JMF SMIM, +1mm OS valves, ported head T3 mani & turbine housing and I am running 60% E85 now. I might be able to find an old log from my .55A/R BEP setup when I was running pump gas...

 

[95ttalontsi]

Ill try those plugs today. Yeah an old log on pump would be great. Im going to get this professionalaly tuned at stm, so I can learn how to tune correctly. STM told me not to go SD if you are under 600hp and they dont tune sd. I just dont want to go there and make low power because something was causing the car to knock. And if my tune looks good then theres got to be something else causeing knock. Its never alot of knock. I never really see more than 2.5 degrees and its always after 5300 rpm. Can a knock sensor go bad and not leak goo?