Swap 90 Tranny into 92 Car? (Merged)

[tsi9973]

hey guys i had a 90 tranny built it was a late 90 tranny so it had 23 spline output shaft and the same internals as 91+ trannys. i am going to put in in my 92 tsi.

do i really need to get the cables/shifter/and bracket from the top of the 90 tranny to do the swap or can i use the 92 stuff?

can i shorten the 92 cables if they are too long and can i make a custom bracket?

can i take the shifter arms off my 92 tranny and put them on the 90 tranny?

by the way the reason i didn't use the 92 tranny is because i popped the case . if i put the 92 stuff in will it shift right?

thanks guys.

yeah i need all the 90 stuff.

 

[tsi9973]

can i just take the horizontal lever off my blown 92 tranny and put it on the 90 tranny? will this work i have a 92 awd. by the way the tranny has the 23 spline output shaft. i dont know why maybe the tranny was built in between years and they used parts from different years. ie.. 90 tranny with 91 output shaft.

 

[beekbuttons]

Nope, that bracket has to be removed with the trans apart in order to swap it. Your trans probably has a 23 spline shaft because of one of a few possible reasons.

1. The transfer case locked up, mangling the output shaft, and when they put in a new tcase they had to use an updated shaft.

2. It was built in late 1990 and they had started using 23 spline output shafts.

3. That trans has been apart at the dealer once and they updated it while they had it apart.

I'm guess either #1 or #2.

 

[92TsiTalon]

so, did the output shaft change to 23 spline from late '90 and on or not. i ask because im getting an awd driveline from a couple of people and i want to make sure i get stuff that's compatible.

 

[wishIhadaturbo]

My busted 5 spd tranny in my 92 2.0 turbo is soon to be replaced. I have a few offers on cheaper 90 or 91 trannies. Are the 92's stronger or more reliable ?

A 90-91 tranny will bolt up. Do I need anything else ? I think I need the starter. Can anyone confirm ?

Will

 

[boosted59]

actually 94 up trannies have the best syncros in them but yeah you can use a tranny from a 90-91 they're the same. I think the bracket on the tranny for the shift cables is different on the 90 trannies but you can use the one off your car.

 

[wishIhadaturbo]

Anybody know if I need the starter. Is it different ?

 

[AWD91TALON]

I HAVE A 91 AWD AND I BOUGHT ONE OF THOSE JDM TRANS THINKING THAT IT WOULD MATE UP. YEAH EVERYTHING BOLTS UP FINE EXCEPT FOR THE SHIFTER CABLES. I CALLED JON SHEPHERD AT 330-705-7036 AND HE TOLD ME THAT THE INTERNALS ARE ACTUALLY DIFFERENT IN THE 90'S. YOU SHOULD CALL HIM. I'M SURE THAT HE WILL SEND YOU IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. OH YEAH AND THE 90 TRANS IS MORE COSTLY TO REBUILD.

 

[wrcruz]

You have to change the shifter base along with the shifter cables and the little plate that hold the shifter on the tranny. Everything else is the same. That's the setup I have on my 93'
Let me know if you have any more ?

 

[4G63dsmpwr]

I have a 92 TSi AWD and am picking up a OEM rebuilt 90 tranny this weekend - the only three things needed are the following:

Shifter Base
Cables
Tranny-Shifter Plate

I just wanna double-check. I'm going to be installing in a few days. Those items might be a bit hard to find at a junkyard, is there anyway to salvage those parts from the 92, maybe mod them a bit. If not I will make the trip to the JY. Thanks alot, didn't mean to hijack your thread EA

 

[wrcruz]

sorry but you can't mod the parts. You have to get the oem ones.

 

[TRBOTSI]

Also note for you awd guys the output shaft on the 90 is different than the 91-99. I believe it's 22 spline vs 23 spline...

 

[Wizard]

Ok.

A 90 Tranny can be put in a 91-94, and vice versa. THE ONLY thing you have to change is the bracket for the shift cables. And actually only the small bracket. It has 4 bolt holes. You'll see the differences between them side by side. That's it. If you get a T-case with the new tranny, you're set. If not, pull out the output shaft of the old tranny by removing the outer cover, and pressing or tapping the shaft out. Then, do the same for the other tranny and slide your other shaft in until it seats firmly. Even if it doesn't seat, the T-case when bolted on will put it into place. Done.

I have even put FWD in AWDs, and Vice Versa and other than flywheel and shim or guide plate, everything else is interchangable.

Wiz

And just to add, the internals are somewhat different for every year of DSM trannies 90-99. They changed something every year. Try looking at my parts screen at the dealership. I am rebuilding a 92 tranny and there are 4 different 1-2 hubs, 3 2nd gear synchros (depending on which hub you use), etc. And a 90 can house 99 internals.

Wiz

 

[set3422]

a) 90-91 has better 3rd and 4th gear (bigger gear diameter), two oil guides, but in exchange for smaller 2nd gear diameter, single synchro, 22pline outputshaft, and smaller intermediate shaft.

b) 91-92 has mix of 90-91 and 93-94 parts It has one oil guide, 90-91 3rd/4th gear, 93-94 2nd gear without double, 23 spline outputshaft, and same intermediate shaft as 93-94.

c) 93-94 has all the above in b) excpet for double synchro on 2nd and smaller 3rd/4th gear.

Originally posted by Wizard
And just to add......The internals are somewhat different for every year of DSM trannies. 90-99. They changed something every year. Try looking at my parts screen at the dealership. I am rebuilding a 92 tranny and there are 4 different 1-2 hubs, 3 2nd gear synchros (depending on which hub you use), etc. And a 90 can house 99 internals......

Wiz

 

[mrmadmax]

Originally posted by Wizard


...

If not, pull out the output shaft of the old tranny by removing the outer cover, and pressing or tapping the shaft out. Then, do the same for the other tranny and slide your other shaft in until it seats firmly.

...

Wiz

Huh?

Isn't there a little 7mm ball that holds the output shaft in place? Shouldn't he remove the viscous coupler and the ball to get the shaft out?

I don't remember this exactly, but I think that the shaft comes out by hand if you remove the coupler and the ball. I would hate to see someone use a press on their tranny to remove a part that should just slide out..

Maybe someone else could verify...

 

[set3422]

yup, you have to take out the snap ring, pry off the vc, take out the steel ball, and prepare to catch the outputshaft.


When installing the vc and outputshaft, make sure the ball seat properly on the shaft groove. When I rebuilt my tranny, I had the tranny upright (bellhousing was facing directly toward the table) and the outputshaft was being pushed inside deeper toward the center differential shaft. Big mistake, the steel ball wasn't in all the way because the hole and the shaft were misaligned. So with the ball sticking out a little bit, the vc would still go in but not completely. I banged the crap out of the vc and still wouldn't go in. Luckily, nothing was being damaged. So make sure the hollow shaft hole aligns with the outputshaft groove. Good luck.



Set,

Originally posted by mrmadmax


Huh?

Isn't there a little 7mm ball that holds the output shaft in place? Shouldn't he remove the viscous coupler and the ball to get the shaft out?

I don't remember this exactly, but I think that the shaft comes out by hand if you remove the coupler and the ball. I would hate to see someone use a press on their tranny to remove a part that should just slide out..

Maybe someone else could verify...

 

[wrcruz]

Do you know if the drive shaft in different betewen the 91' and 94 tranny. My 91' shaft is a little small in diameter and won't fit the 94 tranny.

 

[wishIhadaturbo]

I know up to 93 is all the same. I just put a turbo tranny in a NT shell. Half shafts went right in

 

[wrcruz]

The shaft goes in, but I get a lot of play and it won't grab at all.
I will buy the 94' tomorrow to see if they fit.

 

[Wizard]

To remove the output shaft, you don't remove the VC. Leave the snap ring on too, just remove the T-case. That way you can press the shaft out. The 7mm ball is used only to hold the shaft in place when removing the T-case. The T-case will actually hold the shaft inplace when bolted on.

22-spline is usually 90 models, but I'm sure it extended into 91 model year. 23-spline was used from 91ish to 99. Even 2nd gen T-case fits 1g. I did find out that AT T-cases are quite different too. I just changed one out under recall.

Wiz

 

[mrmadmax]

Originally posted by Wizard
To remove the output shaft, you don't remove the VC. Leave the snap ring on too, just remove the T-case. That way you can press the shaft out. The 7mm ball is used only to hold the shaft in place when removing the T-case. The T-case will actually hold the shaft inplace when bolted on.

...

Wiz

WTF? Are we talking about two different shafts? I'm talking about the shaft that goes from the center diff to the t-case, which is locked in place by A STEEL BALL. Why would anyone use a press? If you use a press, you will f-up the end of the shaft or the vc. How else is the ball going to get out of the groove in the end of the shaft so the shaft can slid out? Besides, most people have a pair of snap ring pliers around, even if they don't have a press.

Wiz, am I just misunderstanding you? Why would you use a press on parts that can be disassembled by hand?

 

[PogiTSI]

ok, I keep geting pulled in Diffrent Directions. I need to know if a 90 GSX Tranny and Transfercase fit in my 1992 Tsi AWD, I already know about the shift Levers on the tranny.


Anyway, diffrent Mechanics Tell me diffrent things. one says it DEFNENTLY wont work, cause the splines are diffrent. one says It might, but the Final Gear has to be the same ( there all the same right?)

heres my issue, AGIAN, Will the Drive Shaft in my 92 bolt up to the 90 Transmission???? What Will I have to do To get a 90 Tranny And X-fer Case into mine? Thanks.

I plan on picking up the Donner 90 This weekend, I hope. But I wont, If I dont know for SURE the trannys will fit, Ive Searched 4 diffrent boards. And no one can give a Straight yes or no Answer.

 

[ASZRAEL1266]

from what i know and from dsm.org. All GSX's that were MT's had the same gears. so its an MT then you don't need to worry about that unless its an TRE tranny or somthing. Other then that you have already said all the probs you will have. The bigest being the splines. If that matches up there should be no problem putting the tranny in. I can garentee you they had the same gears. I will try to copy the url for the gear ratio chart for you once i find it

 

[boosty]

I DID IT AND DID NOT CHANGE THE BRACKET BIG PROBLEM. WENT BACK AND CHANGED IT LOT BETTER. THE GEARSARE THE SAME

 

[wortdog]

I've got a 5-spd 90 AWD tranny in my 92 AWD. Swapping the bracket and the lever is all you'll need to do, as well as adjust your shift cables.