Won't Shift into gear after clutch/flywheel job

Devilsfutbol17 · 07-05-2012, 01:37 PM

I am looking for some advice on what I should do next. My clutch is barely disengaging at the floor. If I come off the floor at all, it will not go into gear. I just put on a Fidanza flywheel with a new surface, new autozone disk, and a used ACT 2600 PP.

I didn't have shifting issues whatsoever prior to the install. I put the tranny on and the fork was too far towards the passengers side. So I pulled it off and put a washer under the pivot ball. Then I put it bolted it back up and it was perfect in the center.

When the clutch pedal is floored, there is maybe a 1/2" at most space that the fork could still move before hitting the housing. I have adjusted the pedal assembly as per the Jacks Transmission video. I also did bleed the system.

The only thing that I could think of is that the slave or master is leaking. They both do appear to be wet so I think I'm going to replace them, but I wanted to make sure I am headed in the right direction. I would hate to spend the money on them if they are not the cause of my issues. Attached is a picture of it with the clutch pedal floored and at rest.

mattasi · 07-05-2012, 01:49 PM

Well if air is getting into the lines because of the leaks then you may not be getting enought throw out/travel of the system.

Devilsfutbol17 · 07-05-2012, 02:25 PM

That's what I'm thinking. If my shift fork is centered(and not bent), does that rule out the shift fork/clutch/flywheel assembly?

GsxAZman · 07-05-2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattasi

Well if air is getting into the lines because of the leaks then you may not be getting enought throw out/travel of the system.

What he said, but also I had the same problem on one of my 1gs a few years ago after installing an act 2600 and resurfaced flywheel. Slave was bled completely. Ended up buying an extended rod for the slave cylinder off of ebay for a few bucks and that solved my engagement problems. I had also ruled out the slave by replacing it but the rod was the issue for me. Just another avenue to look at..

Tyeler18 · 07-05-2012, 03:10 PM

The fork shouldn't be centered. It should be towards the driver side. More than likely you at minimum need a new pivot ball. Fork would be ideal as well. Also what was your flywheel stepped to. I can tell you right now for sure though your pivot point is not far enough yet. A shim is a bandaid

Quote:

Originally Posted by GsxAZman

What he said, but also I had the same problem on one of my 1gs a few years ago after installing an act 2600 and resurfaced flywheel. Slave was bled completely. Ended up buying an extended rod for the slave cylinder off of ebay for a few bucks and that solved my engagement problems. I had also ruled out the slave by replacing it but the rod was the issue for me. Just another avenue to look at..

An extended rod is a bandaid and just as crappy of a "fix" as a shimmed pivot ball.

fonzi90Tsi · 07-05-2012, 03:21 PM

Make sure you flywheels bolts are tightend down to spec. Mines werent when I bought the car and I was having major disengagement problems.

GsxAZman · 07-05-2012, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyeler18

The fork shouldn't be centered. It should be towards the driver side. More than likely you at minimum need a new pivot ball. Fork would be ideal as well. Also what was your flywheel stepped to. I can tell you right now for sure though your pivot point is not far enough yet. A shim is a bandaid

An extended rod is a bandaid and just as crappy of a "fix" as a shimmed pivot ball.

A bandaid that lasted me over 2k miles including around 20 track passes before I blew a headgasket and saved a ton of time over pulling a transmission over again after everything being reinstalled.
But yes I have gone the longer route as well on my 2g. I pulled my tranny out twice to get it perfect and installed new fork, fulcrom ball.
A bandaid is a bandaid but if it works I see no reason to shell out the cash for the extra parts and the time to repull a tranny if the car is fully assembled. Just some suggestions and my 2 cents..
If the OP wants to rip it back apart then more power to him but some people don't have the luxury of that much free time as was in my case with my 1g. Definately for any future people expecting to do a clutch job they should inspect and replace if neccessary those componenets and have the piece of mind that itwas done correctly.

FireyIce01 · 07-05-2012, 03:26 PM

I installed a new fidanza in my car in march, and had the same issue... New fork and pivot ball didn't help, shimmed the pivot and adjusted the pedal, and problem is solved. Only had to take the transmission out 3 times to change that clutch...

NHerron · 07-05-2012, 03:53 PM

Act wants around .610" step for the flywheel, do you remember what it was set to?

But I would replace master/slave if they are leaking

And shimming the pivot is only a bandaid if other parts are not inspected for wear. Even if everything is in spec, you still may need to shim. One reason is, even if the flywheel has the correct step, it will still cause geometry offset, due to the OVERALL material removed during resurfacing.

Now an extended rod is really a bandaid.

Devilsfutbol17 · 07-05-2012, 04:11 PM

I'm trying to avoid the extended rod after watching the tutorial from Jacks Transmissions about how to adjust the clutch pedal assembly.

I torqued down the flywheel in a star pattern little by little, so I can only assume that it was done correctly. I didn't measure the step size of the flywheel because it is the aluminum fidanza flywheel and I just put a new surface on it. I assumed it would be to spec already.

I will check out the prices on a new pivot ball, TOB, and shift fork. Perhaps I'll go that route first before replacing the master and slave cylinders if it is cheaper. I unaware that the pivot ball could wear and be an issue.

I thought the fork just needed to be in the center. Looks like I'll have to drop the tranny again

GsxAZman · 07-05-2012, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devilsfutbol17

I'm trying to avoid the extended rod after watching the tutorial from Jacks Transmissions about how to adjust the clutch pedal assembly.

I torqued down the flywheel in a star pattern little by little, so I can only assume that it was done correctly. I didn't measure the step size of the flywheel because it is the aluminum fidanza flywheel and I just put a new surface on it. I assumed it would be to spec already.
Looks like I'll have to drop the tranny again

When I put a new surface on one of my fidanzas I took it to a machine shop to be stepped correctly and when I got it back there was material removed. Im pretty positive you have to step the fidanza when you replace the surface as I did.

I guess I was the only one that had good luck with the extended rod. Whenever I get that lump of junk 1g back on the road I will replace all those extra components but as stated it had worked for me when I needed it.

Devilsfutbol17 · 07-05-2012, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GsxAZman

I guess I was the only one that had good luck with the extended rod. Whenever I get that lump of junk 1g back on the road I will replace all those extra components but as stated it had worked for me when I needed it.

I have one in my other car and it worked just fine for the 4k miles I drove it before it got parked for non drive train reasons.

Devilsfutbol17 · 07-12-2012, 08:20 AM

Well I tried shimming the pivot ball a little more, getting the fork to sit toward the drivers side more. Still no luck. So then I replaced the master cylinder, slave cylinder, and swapped out the rubber clutch line for a SS one. Still no luck. The distance traveled by the slave rod was still the same.

I'm beginning to question my pressure plate or flywheel now, considering I bought them used. I have the exact same setup on my other galant and I did not have this much of an issue, but the clutch PP, clutch disk, and flywheel were all new.

H@xtGSX · 07-12-2012, 08:34 AM

Either the flywheel isn't stepped right, you have air in the hydraulics, or your pedal is out of adjustment. Something to mention is that bleeding out ALL of the air from the slave cylinder can be a real pain. I bled mine 5 or 6 times before it was solid. Bench bleeding it would be best, but that implies having to install it assembled, and again, would be a pain. If you didn't check the step though, that can and will keep the clutch from working properly if it isn't right.

Devilsfutbol17 · 07-12-2012, 03:54 PM

I'm going to try and bleed it again tonight with a vacuum pump.

Devilsfutbol17 · 08-11-2012, 06:23 PM

I need to have the step height measured on the flywheel, but looking at these pictures, do the fingers on the PP look too flat? This is the Fidanza flywheel with the new surface, a new oem replacement disk, and the used stock mitsu PP.

yhype · 08-11-2012, 07:13 PM

I personally wouldn't recomend using a vacuum pump to bleed your clutch system as the vacuum will leave a pocket of air in the slave cylinder. I have had some personal bad luck of using those on clutch and brake systems. If you find a pressure bleeder to push the fluid through, they seem to work very well.

turbowop · 08-11-2012, 07:22 PM

I use a vacuum pump to get them started if a new master has been installed, then use either a buddy or a speed bleeder to finish the job.

Which slave cylinder are you using? The one with the red 3/4" piston or the larger green piston? The larger green piston won't travel as far and can cause disengagement issues with heavier clutches.

Devilsfutbol17 · 08-12-2012, 10:25 AM

I ended up just bleeding it the normal way without a pump, but still no success.

I just checked and I have a red piston in the slave, as did the slave that I replaced.

So I have replaced the slave & master cylinder, adjusted the clutch in and out as far as possible(beyond recommended), bled the lines a few times, tried an extended slave rod, and replaced the rubber line with a SS one.

I just ordered new OEM shift fork, pivot ball, throwout bearing, and clip to hold the TOB on, so we'll see how that goes when the parts arrive. None of the stuff I have now appears to be dis-formed or anything, but I will give it a shot since it was mentioned to do so.

I honestly think its the clutch/flywheel combo. The thickness of the clutch disk is about .334 and the step on the flywheel is anywhere between .610 and .625.

Thank you all for your input so far. I'm pretty much stumped at this point, so any advice is appreciated.

turbowop · 08-12-2012, 11:18 AM

Maybe the Autozone disk isn't compatible with the ACT pressure plate? What is the thickness of the Autozone disk compared to an ACT disk?

Devilsfutbol17 · 08-12-2012, 04:13 PM

Looks like .33 for the ACT street disk ACT street disc thickness? So it doesn't look too bad, but maybe that little bit will do it.

I loaned a friend my stock flywheel, so I'm going to get it back and make some comparisons between the stock flywheel with the old clutch bolted on, and the fidanza flywheel with the ACT PP with the new disk.

Thanks for the continued help Mark.

Devilsfutbol17 · 08-14-2012, 09:09 AM

Comparing the Fidanza flywheel, replacement disk, and ACT PP to the Fidanza flywheel, replacement disk, and stock old Mitsu PP, I could tell the fingers on the Mitsu PP stuck out a little more. It was enough of a reason to make me believe this could solve the issues. So I gave up on the ACT, ditched waiting for the new parts that I ordered, and put everything back together with the Fidanza flywheel, replacement disk, and the old Mitsu PP.

I put back in the regular slave rod, and moved the master cylinder rod back to the stock location and fired it up. It now shifts perfect and disengages at the perfect height, so not only is it working now, but I have wiggle room to adjust it exactly where I want it to disengage at.

I'm thinking the ACT PP didn't like the thickness of the disk I had. I have a ACT 2600 with an ACT disk and a Fidanza flywheel on my other galant, so it shouldn't have been a problem if I had the ACT disk I'm thinking. I'll eventually just grab a new PP and disk kit from ACT when I feel like dropping the tranny again.

Thank you all for the help.

NHerron · 08-14-2012, 11:03 AM

Glad to hear you got it done