How about Redline MT-90 and Syncromesh together?

TrevorS · 04-28-2012, 08:32 PM

From previous discussion I switched from Syncromesh to Redline MT-90 in my '90 GSX transaxle. The plus is the differential clunk is gone, the negative is so has the eagerness of my '90 GSX to respond to the throttle. My interpretation is the additional oil thickness has both cushioned the gears and dampened the engine. Has anyone tried a mix of Redline MT-90 and Syncromesh to see how the transaxle responds? Or something similar?

TrevorS · 05-04-2012, 04:22 PM

After a run to mix the two oils and a readjustment of the shifter "select" cable, I took the car for another run and for the first time ever experienced shifts "smooth as butter" -- lovely

! Pretty quick shifts too! I had the windows wide open and there wasn't even a hint of clunk from the drive train and the N/A behavior was pretty lively, the way I like. I think 50/50 Redline MT-90 and Pennzoil Syncromesh will be my permanent transaxle blend.

Spoolin4Ever · 05-29-2012, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorS

After a run to mix the two oils and a readjustment of the shifter "select" cable, I took the car for another run and for the first time ever experienced shifts "smooth as butter" -- lovely

! Pretty quick shifts too! I had the windows wide open and there wasn't even a hint of clunk from the drive train and the N/A behavior was pretty lively, the way I like. I think 50/50 Redline MT-90 and Pennzoil Syncromesh will be my permanent transaxle blend.

Well it's about half the viscosity of the required lubricant, so you better change it frequently or you'll be needing a transmission rebuild.

PieEyedPiper · 05-29-2012, 08:18 PM

Try put some miles on the fluid before blending it. It should get thinner with time.

TrevorS · 06-03-2012, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoolin4Ever

Well it's about half the viscosity of the required lubricant, so you better change it frequently or you'll be needing a transmission rebuild.

Required or specified? I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why people running 100% Synchromesh have no issues for tens of thousands of miles, and still don't. I'm aware that many frown upon it (including Jack of Jack's Transmissions), but that in itself doesn't mean it's a bad choice. I personally found my transaxle differentials not too keen on Syncromesh (noticeably clunky), however the MT-90 was a major throttle response killer as well as a shifter notch generator (a non-unique shift behavior observation). The combination of the two is admittedly not perfect, but seems to be working reasonably for me

!

PS. If you beat the hell out of the car, then perhaps shockproof is the best answer (regardless of the Teflon particles), but for normal driving, what is it that demonstrates Syncromesh is in reality a bad choice?

PPS. I'm aware Mitsubishi has a transaxle fluid for the current EVO that is apparently superior to the Eclipse OE fluid and that Mr. Jack strongly endorses (reportedly much better shifting than the MT-90 as well). The name is Diaqueen, and is a fair amount more expensive.

PPPS. The gear oil weight of Syncromesh is not much less than Redline MTL, and a 50/50 blend of MT-90 and MTL is what Mr. Jack recommended.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieEyedPiper

Try put some miles on the fluid before blending it. It should get thinner with time.

Not intending to argue (and I appreciate the input), but I understood a major advantage of synthetic lubricants is they tend to maintain their initial weight for an extended period of time. That doesn't imply a quick solution for the issues I was experiencing. I've read where blends have been recommended before (including by Mr. Jack) and there's no question the MT-90 is a valuable addition to my transaxle, but 100% MT-90 really wasn't working out very well (just as 100% Syncromesh was showing limitations

)!

Spoolin4Ever · 06-03-2012, 10:58 PM

Well I for one had to replace my transmission after switching to BG Synroshift. Way too thin if you drive it hard in the summer.

There are quite a few people that have had to replace their transmissions because running the wrong fluid. Why do you think Jack's and others say not to run it? Just an old wive's tale? lol

It's your car but that gets expensive replacing transmissions...

WES_393 · 06-03-2012, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoolin4Ever

Why do you think Jack's and others say not to run it? Just an old wive's tale? lol

This is my reason right here. If one of the best transmission shops for our cars says don't do something, I don't do it. You could run vegetable oil in a trans and it wouldn't break right away, but that doesn't mean it's good for it.

Not to mention I picked up 3 quarts of Evo gear oil for $34 and 3 quarts of Mitsubishi 75w-90 for $33. I wouldn't call that expensive, even if you added $10 for shipping.

RipperXX · 06-03-2012, 11:19 PM

Mitsubishi DiaQueen gear oil for the Evo MR's 6 speed trans... that stuff is the cat's meow. Soon as I switched from the Redline gear oil to the DiaQueen from Mitsu, oooo the difference was noticed on the first shift. Like butter baby, like butter.

Seriously though, slap yourself, then go buy some of that stuff and swap fluids.

juntjoo · 06-04-2012, 12:26 AM

What's my deal then? I recently replaced my gear oil, don't know what was there, with 2qts of royal purple some W -140 because I'm in Florida, and now my second gear grinds(upshifting//downshifting). Do I need more? Did I pick the wrong weight? Or is it just a coinkydink?

TSI_93 · 06-04-2012, 12:41 AM

I am pretty sure you need 2.5 qts in the manual trans.

WES_393 · 06-04-2012, 12:49 AM

^ Correct.

You should fill the trans until it runs back out of the fill bolt on level ground. That's about 2.5 quarts.

juntjoo · 06-04-2012, 01:01 AM

So .5 qt is going to fix this? I hope so -for twenty bucks.

TrevorS · 06-04-2012, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoolin4Ever

Well I for one had to replace my transmission after switching to BG Synroshift. Way too thin if you drive it hard in the summer.

There are quite a few people that have had to replace their transmissions because running the wrong fluid. Why do you think Jack's and others say not to run it? Just an old wive's tale? lol

It's your car but that gets expensive replacing transmissions...

As you point out, "if you drive it hard in the summer"

! I don't drive the car hard any time of year.

Given Jack warrantys his "performance" transmissions, of course he's going to require some particular lubrication before he'll honor the warranty, that's just good business sense and awareness of his market sector. As I mentioned, he used to recommend a 50/50 MT-90 and MTL which is also reported notchy, but less so than straight MT-90. As I said, MTL is only a little more viscous than Synchromesh, and so in terms of viscosity, my blend is not far from Jack's previous recommendation, main difference being that I benefit from Syncromesh superior shift characteristics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSI_93

I am pretty sure you need 2.5 qts in the manual trans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WES_393

^ Correct.

You should fill the trans until it runs back out of the fill bolt on level ground. That's about 2.5 quarts.

My shop manual says 2.43qt, but I tilted the car way down at the right front corner (brake rotor was almost touching the concrete floor) and drained the transaxle as much as I could before leveling it to refill. 2qts were all I could get into it before it was full.

Quote:

Originally Posted by juntjoo

What's my deal then? I recently replaced my gear oil, don't know what was there, with 2qts of royal purple some W -140 because I'm in Florida, and now my second gear grinds(upshifting//downshifting). Do I need more? Did I pick the wrong weight? Or is it just a coinkydink?

It's always possible that oil isn't a good choice for the transaxle. Also, if you're using hypoid gear oil, that's a mistake -- too slippery for the synchonizers to function properly, could also result in corrosion of the yellow metal parts due to wrong additives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by juntjoo

So .5 qt is going to fix this? I hope so -for twenty bucks.

In case you aren't aware, the transaxle isn't considered full until oil starts dribbling down from the fill plug opening. Same is true for the transfer case and differential.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RipperXX

Mitsubishi DiaQueen gear oil for the Evo MR's 6 speed trans... that stuff is the cat's meow. Soon as I switched from the Redline gear oil to the DiaQueen from Mitsu, oooo the difference was noticed on the first shift. Like butter baby, like butter.

Seriously though, slap yourself, then go buy some of that stuff and swap fluids.

After trying and disliking 100% MT-90, and learning that a blend with MTL was still notchy, I concluded my only options were either to try a blend of what was already on my shelf (MT-90 and Syncromesh) or buy a not-cheap can of Diaqueen. After learning MTL viscosity is not much higher than Synchromesh, and already knowing Synchromesh is excellent for shifting, I decided I'd spent enough money on transaxle oil for the time being, and tried the MT-90/Syncromesh blend. All I can say is it works for me

.

juntjoo · 06-04-2012, 07:14 PM

Thanks Trevor. So far I've put in 3qts of this stuff:

http://www.royalpurple.com/product-c...ive/#!max-gear

and hasn't over flowed nor has the grinding stopped. 3rd also is grinding a bit -and 1st has grinded since I got the car, so I have to go to 2nd first, then 1st. So do I fork out another 20 bones??

TrevorS · 06-04-2012, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juntjoo

Thanks Trevor. So far I've put in 3qts of this stuff:

Automotive - Royal Purple

and hasn't over flowed nor has the grinding stopped. 3rd also is grinding a bit -and 1st has grinded since I got the car, so I have to go to 2nd first, then 1st. So do I fork out another 20 bones??

Please check your owners manual to determine how much transaxle fluid is required to fill. Once again, this oil may not be a good match for your Mitsubishi transaxle. If you've had grinding issues since purchasing the car, it's entirely possible the previous owner damaged the synchronizers

! Three qts is getting a little high and so please don't add more until you verify the capacity of your transaxle. It could well be the transaxle itself is currently the problem.

FWIW -- my transaxle didn't like shifting into either first or third before I replaced the OE fluid. I had to move a little into second before sliding into first, and third was frequently balky

! My move to Syncromesh solved both, but then the front differential clunk became apparent. Since you have an FWD, you may have more options than I, but my personal choice currently is the MT-90/Pennzoil Sycromesh blend.

Calan · 06-04-2012, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorS

... then perhaps shockproof is the best answer (regardless of the Teflon particles)

Shockproof causes issues because of the waxes and other ingredients that like to clog up oil passages in the tranny.

That aside, you've provided a lot of very good generic info in this thread Trevor.

TrevorS · 06-05-2012, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calan

Shockproof causes issues because of the waxes and other ingredients that like to clog up oil passages in the tranny.

That aside, you've provided a lot of very good generic info in this thread Trevor.

Thanks man

! I try to research the things I do as best I can. From what I've read, Shockproof does seem a question mark in the transaxle. Similarly, there was a Prestone antifreeze at one time that tended to clog radiators thanks to suspended particles (polypropylene?) -- pretty sure that product was discontinued.

PieEyedPiper · 06-07-2012, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorS

Required or specified? I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why people running 100% Synchromesh have no issues for tens of thousands of miles, and still don't. I'm aware that many frown upon it (including Jack of Jack's Transmissions), but that in itself doesn't mean it's a bad choice. I personally found my transaxle differentials not too keen on Syncromesh (noticeably clunky), however the MT-90 was a major throttle response killer as well as a shifter notch generator (a non-unique shift behavior observation). The combination of the two is admittedly not perfect, but seems to be working reasonably for me

!

PS. If you beat the hell out of the car, then perhaps shockproof is the best answer (regardless of the Teflon particles), but for normal driving, what is it that demonstrates Syncromesh is in reality a bad choice?

PPS. I'm aware Mitsubishi has a transaxle fluid for the current EVO that is apparently superior to the Eclipse OE fluid and that Mr. Jack strongly endorses (reportedly much better shifting than the MT-90 as well). The name is Diaqueen, and is a fair amount more expensive.

PPPS. The gear oil weight of Syncromesh is not much less than Redline MTL, and a 50/50 blend of MT-90 and MTL is what Mr. Jack recommended.

Not intending to argue (and I appreciate the input), but I understood a major advantage of synthetic lubricants is they tend to maintain their initial weight for an extended period of time. That doesn't imply a quick solution for the issues I was experiencing. I've read where blends have been recommended before (including by Mr. Jack) and there's no question the MT-90 is a valuable addition to my transaxle, but 100% MT-90 really wasn't working out very well (just as 100% Syncromesh was showing limitations

)!

I guess I just meant to indicate that I'd try almost anything before playing mad chemist in my transmission (regardless of how many people do it).

TrevorS · 06-07-2012, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieEyedPiper

I guess I just meant to indicate that I'd try almost anything before playing mad chemist in my transmission (regardless of how many people do it).

Your input's appreciated, but I have to draw my own conclusions and make my own experiments. The transmission is only one of many systems that matter in an automobile. No question I'm still learning, but hands on behavior and consideration of context is to me the basis of decision making. Once I exhaust my supply of MT-90 and Syncromesh, my next transaxle fluid will be Diaqueen. I've no experience with that and don't know if it's genuinely better, but at least, it's something I've yet to try.

juntjoo · 06-12-2012, 04:12 PM

I don't get it. I'm now at 6qts and still haven't topped it off yet. still grinding 2nd. could I be putting it in the wrong hole?

synthetek · 06-12-2012, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juntjoo

I don't get it. I'm now at 6qts and still haven't topped it off yet. still grinding 2nd. could I be putting it in the wrong hole?

You must be putting it in the wrong place

the fill hole is on the side and you have about 4qts too much in there.

PieEyedPiper · 06-12-2012, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juntjoo

I don't get it. I'm now at 6qts and still haven't topped it off yet. still grinding 2nd. could I be putting it in the wrong hole?

Please do tell us where you've managed to stash 4qts of fluid!

99gst214 · 06-12-2012, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieEyedPiper

Please do tell us where you've managed to stash 4qts of fluid!

Next response will be, "my trans is now leaking from what appears to be the axle seals"! LMAO

Raymond1927 · 06-12-2012, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juntjoo

I don't get it. I'm now at 6qts and still haven't topped it off yet. still grinding 2nd. could I be putting it in the wrong hole?

You got to be kidding me.LMAO hahahahahaha...... How the heck did you get 6qt into your transmission.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieEyedPiper

Please do tell us where you've managed to stash 4qts of fluid!

Hahahahaha..... my exact thoughts. this is so funny..

mattasi · 06-12-2012, 06:19 PM

Oh man 6 qts? Something is very wrong here.

juntjoo · 06-12-2012, 06:38 PM

yup yup, I've the most lubricated tranny in the DSM community and my secret is the bolt right under where I guess they're called shift linkages go over and connect to the tranny. what is that hole for? I thought I had some super heavy duty tranny

juntjoo · 06-12-2012, 06:54 PM

yeah, and now I'm starting to gear oil...

synthetek · 06-12-2012, 07:01 PM

Park on level ground and open the fill plug and let it drian until it stops, then the fluid will be at the correct level and you can put the fill plug back in.

PieEyedPiper · 06-13-2012, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juntjoo

yeah, and now I'm starting to gear oil...

I'm not sure I understand. Did the fluid come out of the transmission or is it still inside it? I'm tempted to go outside and check the top of my tranny for anything that looks like you could fill. Gosh, could you imagine, what if you somehow filled up the airspace the clutch occupies? But I guess your inspection window would have started pissing out fluid in short order.

Calan · 06-13-2012, 01:56 PM

I can't focus enough right now to think about where that tranny fluid went, but this has to be the funniest thread jack I've ever seen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by juntjoo

yeah, and now I'm starting to ? gear oil...

Smell? See? Fondle? Taste?

What is it exactly that you are doing with gear oil?

And wtf is a "coinkydink?"