Racing Automatic?

[Chirijaden]

So I have done my research and searched for other posts. However, all of the racing automatic transmissions cost 3-4k, now seeing as I have an auto (I got a really good deal on it) is there any realistic racing auto trans that I can put in my car? If it is over 2000 dollars I would not be interested, because for that I could get a racing manual conversion. Also I am confused about what makes the level 10 trans so awesome. All it does is consistently change gears at a certain rpm correct? And two more questions, I do plan on upgrading my car so what sort of horsepower can I get out of my transmission before it really starts to slip (I plan to get a t28 killer). If anyone has ever tested the 1/8th or 1/4th of a mile time in a stock auto versus a stock manual I would really like to know the difference. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

 

[transdude]

Unfortunately, racing automatics are not cheap. This is especially true of the import units. You must also beware of believing all of the advertising that you read. There are only a handfull of companies that are able to modify Asian transmissions for high horsepower usage. From a drag race prospective a modified auto, with the proper converter will always be faster than a stick (not to mention more consistant and more friendly to other driveline components). The main reason for this is that an automatic enables you to build boost on the starting line and the other reason is of course quicker shifting. If you want to pm me I will be happy to discuss what a modified trans will and will not do. I don't think we have the room for this discussion here (unless other people on the forum are interested)

 

[Goro21]

i'd be interested in knowing whats out there in terms of good racing trannies..

 

[Chirijaden]

I still have a few more questions, what kind of horsepower can i get out of my auto trans before it really starts to slip. Also if anyone has ever tested the 1/8th or 1/4th of a mile time in a stock auto versus a stock manual I would really like to know the difference. And does anyone know of any racing auto trans I can get that will not cost a ridiculous amount?

 

[SOURCE1064]

Just build your tranny. I had mine bust on me when everything was stock. Here are at dsm times for you to check out, they can be made fast. http://users.erols.com/rcoxe/fastest.htm

Things to get

1)Transmission kit from Levelten, http://www.levelten.com/ $485.25 (GSX) $452.25 (GST) (They say it's bulletproof and can hold up to 750hp) there is another company that does a transmission kit but I don't remember their name.

2) Restall your torque convertor Levelten $498.00, Protorque, or Precision Technologies

3) Buy a Translab shift kit and end clutch from Dean Mason $75 for each shipped. [email protected] my post on it: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21649&highlight=translab

 

[transdude]

Originally posted by Chirijaden
I still have a few more questions, what kind of horsepower can i get out of my auto trans before it really starts to slip. Also if anyone has ever tested the 1/8th or 1/4th of a mile time in a stock auto versus a stock manual I would really like to know the difference. And does anyone know of any racing auto trans I can get that will not cost a ridiculous amount?

How do you define ridiculous amount? My definition is "ANY amount that is spent on something of low quality"

 

[transdude]

Originally posted by SOURCE1064
Just build your tranny. I had mine bust on me when everything was stock. Here are at dsm times for you to check out, they can be made fast. http://users.erols.com/rcoxe/fastest.htm

Things to get

1)Transmission kit from Levelten, http://www.levelten.com/ $485.25 (GSX) $452.25 (GST) (They say it's bulletproof and can hold up to 750hp) there is another company that does a transmission kit but I don't remember their name.

2) Restall your torque convertor Levelten $498.00, Protorque, or Precision Technologies

3) Buy a Translab shift kit and end clutch from Dean Mason $75 for each shipped. [email protected] my post on it: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21649&highlight=translab

Am I missing something? I fail to see how someone can claim that a transmission kit can " hold up 750 hp". Is this "kit" the same type of "kit" that I've used several thousand of in the last fifteen years? If it is, that would mean that it would consist of gaskets, o rings, sealing rings, metal clad seals, clutches, steels etc. This would be much like me telling you that I have an engine kit consisting of bearings, rings, gaskets and freeze out plugs that is "good for 750hp".
I've been doing this for fifteen years and I've yet to come across a "kit" consisting of trans overhaul parts that single handedly enabeles a transmission to handle any more power than the factory design of the unit ,in it's unmodified form, is capable of. I've obviously been wasting alot of time on R&D, cryogenic treatments, swapping valve bodies, heat treating splines, redesigning hydraulic circuits etc. Where do I get these kits again? I'd like to buy several dozen! It sure would save me alot of time and money.
THIRD RULE OF HOTRODDING: If it sounds to good to be true it probably is.
SEVENTH RULE OF HOTRODDING: Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

 

[SOURCE1064]

That's what they adversite on their site with the use of one of their torque convertors. I am having them restall my torque convertor and build my tranny. It it doesn't hold up they better fix it or they'll hear from my lawyer for false advertisement.

This is not just a kit of parts - it is a meticulously engineered System of finest-quality components to provide a "bulletproof" transmission rebuild for severe service applications. Applications include Sport Utility, RV's, heavy loads, pulling heavy trailers, high performance, high horsepower, turbocharged and supercharged engines. These Systems feature Raybestos® PTS™ clutches.

Fixes sloppy shifts, burnt clutch and bands, slippage, gear disengagement in OD, soft slipping 3rd shift, no reverse, no forward gears,2-3 flair up, rev limiter on shifts, flashing OD light.
A must have for NOS, Turbo, Supercharged machines.
Torque 650 ft. 750 HP.

 

[transdude]

color me impressed. Are you getting sponsored by them?

 

[SOURCE1064]

No sponsors as of yet hopefully when my car is all up and running I will attract some sponsors. I'm just an idiot now drooping 26K into rebuilding my whole car, engine, suspension, rims, system, etc.

 

[transdude]

Nobody is suggesting that you are an idiot, I've looked at some of your posts and you seem to know alot about these vechicles. It seems to me that in the third sentence of your last reply you were already alluding to suing a trans shop if their advertising was inaccurate. It just sounds as if you may not be totally convinced yourself. Trust me I'm not breakin' your banana here, I'm just suggesting that on a websight people can say whatever they please. Now in reference to sponsorship, our shop has few deals with some very fast Supra guys and we are currently looking to ink some deals with fast automatic equipped cars from the other Asian manufacturers. I would be curious to know how fast you think that your car will be able to run, and in what stage of completion it is in. I'm looking for a couple more guys in the NY Metro area with fast cars that are willing to go to Englishtown regularly, run fast, maybe go some rounds in elininations, and in exchange we will assist them with there trans program. I see that you're in Paramus, we are in Bergen County off of 17. You, or anyone else, that may be interested is welcome to contact us.Good Luck with building your ride!

 

[SOURCE1064]

That would be cool to work with you on my car's trans. As of now I have now I'd probably want to compete in the street class. I really want to keep my car looking mostly stock without a roll cage but we'll see what happens when I get to that time. I'm thinking I should be able to reach 11's well tuned but in order to get there I'd probably have to switch over to a stand alone fuel management instead of my super-sfr. I just bought all my stuff and half way through I decided to go all out on my car so I'll live with what I have doen to my car now before dropping more money into my car until I see what I can do and what my restrictions are. I will send you some time slip info when my car is up and running. I am from Paramus but right now I'm in King of Prussia, PA at College which is actually closer to e-town. I'm done with school this May and plan to spend a lot of time tuning my car and running it at the track over the summer.

 

[transdude]

I hear you, I've pissed plenty of money away on street cars over the years. A few years ago I was running an all motor small block Chevy powered Firebird which I drove to the track every week (50+ miles). All that I would do at the track would be to remove the air cleaner, drop the tire pressure(ET Streets), and take my milk crate of tools out of the back. It's best time was 10.29 at 130mph with a 1.44 60'. I now have an 8 second 65 Nova. I was able to get it out for the end of the season last year but I could only get in a few runs on it, so far with only two full passes on it it's run 8.87 @ 150 with a 1.27 60' (.501 and .520 RT- had to brag a little, the car is deadly at the tree) I plan on a 200 hp nitrous shot in the spring 8.30's?(this car I trailer to the track, but it is registered and is street driven on short trips). Anyway this does'nt help to promote my business as the car is a domestic model. By the way, if you do run in the 11's you will be required to install the roll bar (NHRA rules).

 

[zac83]

saw someone bickering about what a 'racing transmission is'.

heres the low down.

know what a sun gear is? well they put more pinions in the sun so it'll hold more torque before possible ringwalk blows the teeth out of all the gears in the unit... this is a very expensive part but is crucial to holding horsepower.

the pistons in the drums are hollowed out on the pressurized side so they have more area capacity. this allows them to push ALOT harder on your clutches.

extra steels/clutches... they cram these in there often milled precisely so every piece is the same as its counterparts for uniformness and they put as many extra in as possible.

selective snaprings: allow for more steels/clutches and more room behind the piston for harder engagements

cryotreat parts, i dont know if this is worth anything or not???

valve body. not sure just how the automatic valve body works, but you can insert stronger springs so TV pressure is higher before a shift (higher RPM)... and you can wallow out plate holes for increased flow to pressurize pistons.

electrical: make sure your solenoids are all good...

run good ATF in there. an old trick people use is putting type F in there... think of B&M rebottling old ford type F fluid and selling it for 5 bucks a pop

either way, this is my 'domestic racing tranny spiel', dont take it very seriously on your T/E/L automatic... hope it clears things up for you tho.

 

[Chirijaden]

Seriously I am very happy with all the replies. I have learned quite a bit about this. SOURCE1064 thank you for giving me the name of some sort of place I can check out. Also Zac 83 thanks for giving me some idea on what sort of things I should look into replacing. But yet again I have one last question, does any one know how much horsepower my auto trans can take before slipping? Or if no one knows, does anyone know if I can trust my transmission with a t28 killer?

Again thanks to everyone for any and all comments on auto transmissions.

 

[transdude]

Originally posted by zac83
saw someone bickering about what a 'racing transmission is'.

heres the low down.

know what a sun gear is? well they put more pinions in the sun so it'll hold more torque before possible ringwalk blows the teeth out of all the gears in the unit... this is a very expensive part but is crucial to holding horsepower.

the pistons in the drums are hollowed out on the pressurized side so they have more area capacity. this allows them to push ALOT harder on your clutches.

extra steels/clutches... they cram these in there often milled precisely so every piece is the same as its counterparts for uniformness and they put as many extra in as possible.

selective snaprings: allow for more steels/clutches and more room behind the piston for harder engagements

cryotreat parts, i dont know if this is worth anything or not???

valve body. not sure just how the automatic valve body works, but you can insert stronger springs so TV pressure is higher before a shift (higher RPM)... and you can wallow out plate holes for increased flow to pressurize pistons.

electrical: make sure your solenoids are all good...

run good ATF in there. an old trick people use is putting type F in there... think of B&M rebottling old ford type F fluid and selling it for 5 bucks a pop

either way, this is my 'domestic racing tranny spiel', dont take it very seriously on your T/E/L automatic... hope it clears things up for you tho.

Please consult "DSM Tuners Forum" rule number 10

 

[transdude]

Originally posted by Chirijaden
Seriously I am very happy with all the replies. I have learned quite a bit about this. SOURCE1064 thank you for giving me the name of some sort of place I can check out. Also Zac 83 thanks for giving me some idea on what sort of things I should look into replacing. But yet again I have one last question, does any one know how much horsepower my auto trans can take before slipping? Or if no one knows, does anyone know if I can trust my transmission with a t28 killer?

Again thanks to everyone for any and all comments on auto transmissions.

The answer to that depends on a variety of factors- the most important of which is available traction. In other words, if a car hooks hard with 500 hp and breaks the trans it is still likely that the same exact trans behind 800 hp in a car that doesn't attempt to do anything but spin the tires when power is applied, should survive with relative ease. Realisticly, some of my customers run pretty well into the tens with dsm units and their tranmissions are working fine, so figure 600- 650 hp with a hard hooking car and a killer built trans. This is my honest estimation. Anyone that is telling you that they can handle more may be streaching it a little but hey, if that's what it takes to for them to sell stuff...

 

[SOURCE1064]

I'd be happy running 500whp with my tranny working well.

 

[Chirijaden]

Thanks, I do not plan on going above 500hp ever, so I think I should be all right. Thank you everyone for answering all of the questions for me.

 

[Mitsureeper]

Originally posted by Chirijaden
I still have a few more questions, what kind of horsepower can i get out of my auto trans before it really starts to slip. Also if anyone has ever tested the 1/8th or 1/4th of a mile time in a stock auto versus a stock manual I would really like to know the difference. And does anyone know of any racing auto trans I can get that will not cost a ridiculous amount?

hey, bro. I don't know if i can answer all your questions properly. I know a little bit from my experience. I have a 97 GS-T A/T 68k mi. somewhat modified, always taken cared off. Based on my times i'm GUESSING my car has about 300-320HP___290HP at least.
I ran 13.1 @105mph on the stock tranny (100 octane,watter wetter only). On pump gas,water wetter only my times varied (i couldn't tune my car properly) they range from 13.8-14.1-2. I had no problems w/ the tranny or car. Until 1 mo ago. when i started driving the car again (after 3 months)after some broke into my car and stoled all my mods I replaced a few of them. I live in IL cold in the winter. Well, my tranny is slipping real bad. I'm guessing the cold air brought a few ponies. Even in the summer i was able to spin my front tires at 60-70 mph (stock tranny,also i did not do it to often). In the cold weather even more, that might be why my tranny went bad . Now, to answer your questions.

1- PERSONALLY i think you can get 300HP out of the stock tranny before it starts to slip NO more than that. I heard the stock tranny can stand 350HP which i don't believe that unless my car has that much HP and that's why my tranny went bad.

2- Your tranny may last longer if you treat it right/not abuse it. Torque-braking, not tranny fluid changes. not waiting till the car fully stops to shift into another gear. I'm dirt poor so i tried to take car of the car/tranny.

3- If you really want to mod you car/tranny. Just go w/ the tranny upgrades: shift kit, end clutches. $150 for both. oh, and a tranny oil cooler. Maybe a torque converter if you want $300-490

4-REMEMBER. M/T guys loose 5% of there over-all HP doe to the tranny
"US" A/T guys loose 15% of our over-all HP also do to the power-robbing tranny. That's why we gotta have more mods/to produce more power in order to keep up w/ the M/T guys.

Sorry, for making this post so long. You guys have NO idea how much i love these cars and how i love to go fast. I got an A/T car by chance not by choice. My plans are to EVENTUALLY get a 97-99 GSX and transfer my mods to that car and then GO ALL OUT. Just by thinking if i would it had a 97-99 GSX m/t w/ the same mods i have right now i would be doing low,mid 12's instead of the 13.1 on my 97 fwd a/t. Might even go for a bike, maybe. Susuki GSX-R 1000 and than turbocharge it. I hope i was able to help you out on your decision on the tranny questions you had.


Jose
97 Eclipse GS-T
HRC S16G, HRC FMIC,550cc,3" turbo->back exhaust, and some personal perf. bolt-on mods.

 

[transdude]

When you're saying that a stock trans can only handle 300 hp you may be right, but a properly built trans should handle much more. You're also correct about the amount of power that a stick uses versus an automatic but you do have to keep in mind that a properly built and modified trans with a converter capible of optimizing the powerband of your motor is going to be faster even though it uses more horsepower. You can't build boost at the starting line with a stick and you can't even attempt to shift a manual as fast as an auto, especially without throwing parts out of the back of the car.If you're road racing, yes a stick is the way to fly, if you're drag racing you need an automatic. One only needs to go to the track and look at the domestic vehicles and you will see 20 automatic cars for every stick, is everyone wrong? I'm sure the auto vs. stick debate will go on forever, but the purpose of a forum is to give your opinion and to discuss things with others. I'm not advocating changing from an automatic to a stick or vice-versa but if you like sticks, enjoy it. If you have an automatic make it better, go fast and have fun!

 

[Mitsureeper]

Hey, Transdude.
Yeah, your right with out a doubt. A properly built trans w/ a proper torque converter. Will be able to handle much more power. Will shift more smoothly, quicker, and harder. Your also right about the track. The day i went to the track it was a Sun. It was ALL BIG loud muscle cars w/ big superchargers sticking out of their hoods. Yep, all of them were A/T 's w/ the exception of 1 or 2. . I'm not saying A/T cars can't be made fast/handle the power. I love my car. It has guts ( I prove it to a few people) when i floor it (maybe not now w/ the bad tranny) specially at high speeds. Love those 60-70mph wheel spins. When i said the stock 2G tranny could handle 300hp. I was just poiting out that PERSONALLY i think that's the HP the stock tranny could held w/o any problems like bad shifting,slipping in any gear or problems w/ OD. Like you said if you upgrade the stock tranny it will hold more power and the car will be quicker. I'm sorry if in any way i implied that stick was the way to go. It depends on the personal goals of each one of us have set for our-selfs and our cars and the uses (Drag racing, road racing, etc) for wich the car will be intended to.
Thanks, Transdude.



Jose
97 Eclipse GS-T

 

[transdude]

I was just giving my opinion of the stick vs. auto thing based on what I think will get a car from A to B faster with less parts breaking. If there weren't different views on this, they wouldn't sell both types of transmissions. If a person would travel to other parts of the world, they would have trouble finding cars with automatics. They are much more common in this country. The fact is, the fun and enjoyment that a person has driving their car can't be measured on a time slip. I was merely putting forth other options that automatic car owners may not be aware of. The difference of opinion and intelligent discussion is, after all, the reason that we use the forums. Good Luck with your car!

 

[Defcon95tsi]

Hey tranz dude.. i live in jersey , close to e-town , building a 2g dsm... (95 talon tsi awd) its auto...im on a tight budget...what can you do for me?

 

[transdude]

Originally posted by Defcon95tsi
Hey tranz dude.. i live in jersey , close to e-town , building a 2g dsm... (95 talon tsi awd) its auto...im on a tight budget...what can you do for me?

Wow, this is an old post being dug up! PM or email me- [email protected] and we can discuss your needs.
-John