Will the 2100/6 puck combo work well for me?

[eboy0]

Hey guys haven't been on here in a while been having some issues...
The clutch finally decided to give out.. and its perfect timing too just as soon as the ground is about to freeze.
I was looking over this thread which is very helpful but I wanted to just check in with you guys before I place the order.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256065&highlight=act+2100+clutch
Will the 2100/6 combo hold up as much torque as the 2600/street? None of the sites I've visited really give these kind of specs.
Also will there be any real difference, in duration of the clutch? Normally, how long will these things last anyways?
This will be for a daily driver... with some weekend of fun and a couple of annually track visits.

The main goal here is.. I'm going to be shooting for the 400 HP range and don't want to promote crank walk in any way, so that's why i'm just not going with a 2600.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[DGajre777]

Hey guys haven't been on here in a while been having some issues...
The clutch finally decided to give out.. and its perfect timing too just as soon as the ground is about to freeze.
I was looking over this thread which is very helpful but I wanted to just check in with you guys before I place the order.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256065&highlight=act+2100+clutch
Will the 2100/6 combo hold up as much torque as the 2600/street? None of the sites I've visited really give these kind of specs.
Also will there be any real difference, in duration of the clutch? Normally, how long will these things last anyways?
This will be for a daily driver... with some weekend of fun and a couple of annually track visits.

The main goal here is.. I'm going to be shooting for the 400 HP range and don't want to promote crank walk in any way, so that's why i'm just not going with a 2600.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Ah, my old thread. I run a 2100/6 puck sprung hub disc and an ACT flywheel.

Puck discs are "known" to last shorter than street discs, but I haven't tested that one yet.

Yes, as you saw in the specs on the tread above, the ACT 2100/6 puck is rated for more torque than the ACT 2600. I've had the clutch a little over 6 months now so I'll give you a short review.
The bad stuff...
- The engagement is harsh at high RPMs, if you don't know how to slip it, you'll kill your synchros
- It is harder to slip it compared to a street clutch
- If you drive in heavy traffic (slipping in a pain)
- It chatters a little when the disc is not hot, or warmed up

The good stuff...
- Launches like crazy
- Instant engagement
- You don't have to worry about killing your street disc (but may have to worry about killing your flywheel or your transmission)

Take this for what it is worth, but my next clutch is going to be the ACT 2600 with a street disc. If you are going to get a motor that is going to crankwalk, it will crankwalk. You can try to prevent it by installing a switch so you don't have to press the clutch when you start your car and not keeping your foot on the pedal when you are at a stop light.

 

[eboy0]

That's great advice...
by:
"The engagement is harsh at high RPMs, if you don't know how to slip it, you'll kill your synchros"

What exactly do you mean? Will NLTS help out at all or make this any worse?

 

[DGajre777]

That's great advice...
by:
"The engagement is harsh at high RPMs, if you don't know how to slip it, you'll kill your synchros"

What exactly do you mean? Will NLTS help out at all or make this any worse?

That means that unlike a street disc that softens the drivetrain shock at high RPMs, the 6 puck disc is harsh. If you dump your cluth or slam your car into gear at high RPM, you will end up killing your synchros in the transmission. If you don't slip it, you'll start getting synchro crunch noises and eventually it will kill the synchros and then you'll need a tranny rebuild.

In theory, NTLS electronically lower the RPMs so you can shift without taking your foot off the pedal. If you plan on getting a Stage III TRE or Shep tranny with double synchros, then it is a different story. I haven't used NTLS with a 6 puck, so I can't comment on it, but it may give you more time to concentrate on slipping your clutch allowing you to make smoother shifts.

 

[eboy0]

Ahh I see, well I don't want that.
Another thread caught my eye:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258366&highlight=unsprung
With twicks69s knowledge, and the numbers he's putting down he recommends the South Bend Clutch, he says it works nicely with the ACT and our flywheels, (hopefully ACT flywheels). And it seems to hold up alot more HP than the 6 puck?
Or is this the 2600 with the south bend?

 

[JayRolla]

It does not last as long and it eats up the flywheel. Street discs are better for street usage. If your only at the strip then its good. Engagement at high rpm is harder so why would you want that. 2600 w/street disc works just fine.

 

[DGajre777]

It does not last as long and it eats up the flywheel. Street discs are better for street usage. If your only at the strip then its good. Engagement at high rpm is harder so why would you want that. 2600 w/street disc works just fine.

Do you actually have or have ever run an ACT 6 puck sprung hub disc with a 2100 pressure plate?

We aren't talking about unsprung discs, we are talking about sprung discs.

 

[DGajre777]

Ahh I see, well I don't want that.
Another thread caught my eye:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258366&highlight=unsprung
With twicks69s knowledge, and the numbers he's putting down he recommends the South Bend Clutch, he says it works nicely with the ACT and our flywheels, (hopefully ACT flywheels). And it seems to hold up alot more HP than the 6 puck?
Or is this the 2600 with the south bend?

That thread doesn't really apply, he is talking about an unsprung disc, you are wanting to run a sprung disc, or you should on a street car.

Everyone runs a 2600 with a street disc, if you want to join the crowd, get that. I wanted to try something that hasn't been tried before, which is why I opted for the combo that I have. So far it has been working good, but buyer beware, if you don't know how to drive your car you'll kill your transmission and possibly your flywheel (if you keep running on a hot puck disc it will crack). And YES, you can tell when the puck disc gets hot cause it expands and the pedal pressure gets a lot lighter and softer.

The thing about running a puck disc is that maybe 1 or 2 YEARS ago, only ACT unsprung ceramic discs were available, everyone was saying not to get one. NOW you have sprung discs, and even sprung kevlar discs that are a LOT smoother on the flywheel and transmission that ceramic sprung hub discs. The ACT 6 puck discs are CERAMIC, so unless someone is running a 6 puck CERAMIC disc, everything that they say about a 6 puck disc is irrelevant to the question you are asking. You'll also have people come in here and say that they run a Fidanza 4 puck kevlar disc and the engagement is smooth, well a 4 puck is harsher than a 6 puck, but because it is kevlar and not ceramic it is smoother.

As I said before, be careful who you take advice from. A majority of people on here have never owned a car with a 6 puck sprung hub ceramic disc like the ACT discs which is why you can't find any accurate information on it. I know of maybe 2 members on here who run the same combo that I have so that should answer your question about how many people run this setup.

On a side note, I was commended by John at TRE transmissions on running a ACT2100 with a 6 puck disc instead of a 2600 with a street disc since the lower pressure plate puts less stress on the thrust bearings, so there's that info from a transmission shop.

 

[eboy0]

That thread doesn't really apply, he is talking about an unsprung disc, you are wanting to run a sprung disc, or you should on a street car.

Everyone runs a 2600 with a street disc, if you want to join the crowd, get that. I wanted to try something that hasn't been tried before, which is why I opted for the combo that I have. So far it has been working good, but buyer beware, if you don't know how to drive your car you'll kill your transmission and possibly your flywheel (if you keep running on a hot puck disc it will crack). And YES, you can tell when the puck disc gets hot cause it expands and the pedal pressure gets a lot lighter and softer.

The thing about running a puck disc is that maybe 1 or 2 YEARS ago, only ACT unsprung ceramic discs were available, everyone was saying not to get one. NOW you have sprung discs, and even sprung kevlar discs that are a LOT smoother on the flywheel and transmission that ceramic sprung hub discs. The ACT 6 puck discs are CERAMIC, so unless someone is running a 6 puck CERAMIC disc, everything that they say about a 6 puck disc is irrelevant to the question you are asking. You'll also have people come in here and say that they run a Fidanza 4 puck kevlar disc and the engagement is smooth, well a 4 puck is harsher than a 6 puck, but because it is kevlar and not ceramic it is smoother.

As I said before, be careful who you take advice from. A majority of people on here have never owned a car with a 6 puck sprung hub ceramic disc like the ACT discs which is why you can't find any accurate information on it. I know of maybe 2 members on here who run the same combo that I have so that should answer your question about how many people run this setup.

On a side note, I was commended by John at TRE transmissions on running a ACT2100 with a 6 puck disc instead of a 2600 with a street disc since the lower pressure plate puts less stress on the thrust bearings, so there's that info from a transmission shop.

Well sprung vs unsprung, the tech guy at ImportEvolution sent me this:

they are just marketing gimmicks. I spoke to an act tech about them and he said they only sell them to prevent losing sales to other manufacturers who make them. They recommend unsprung on all their pucks for less weight and more reliability.

"Sprung vs. Unsprung

Which is better, depends on usage. For any performance application I always recommend un-sprung. Would you want a one piece hammer or a three piece hammer connected by springs? If you want something fail safe then unsprung is the way to go. The reason why there are springs in the hub is not to prevent chatter. Chatter is a engagement property and is mostly dictated by the friction material used. The springs in the clutch disc prevent crank vibrations (piston engines have jerky rotational motion due to combustion) from entering the transmission. This is the principal behind sprung hubs. In practice I have yet to see any ill effects of running un-sprung hubs. I've taken apart a few transmissions and have not noticed anything unusual. It's not like I've opened up a tranny and say look Bob, this is what happens when you run a unsprung disc. I just haven't found any signs of bad effects. Now if you want your tranny to last 200-300k miles then I would choose to run a sprung disc. If not the lighter un-sprung disc is my choice."

In the thread about sprung vs unsprung, i was looking at the South Bend one.
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/price/Mitsubishi/Eclipse-Talon_95-99/South_Bend/Clutch/Clutch_Disks
The guy running 700HP said he really enjoyed that disc and how slippable/grippy it was.
I'm really looking into getting that one, twicks69 told me in a PM that the 2100/SB combo will hold 20% less torque than the 2600/SB, so i'll be giving them a call come monday on which I should set myself up with.
Anymore info would be great.

 

[twicks69]

In the thread about sprung vs unsprung, i was looking at the South Bend one.
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/price/Mitsubishi/Eclipse-Talon_95-99/South_Bend/Clutch/Clutch_Disks
The guy running 700HP said he really enjoyed that disc and how slippable/grippy it was.
I'm really looking into getting that one, twicks69 told me in a PM that the 2100/SB combo will hold 20% less torque than the 2600/SB, so i'll be giving them a call come monday on which I should set myself up with.
Anymore info would be great.

I hope it works out for you and your setup!

 

[DGajre777]

I hope it works out for you and your setup!

Tiwcks69 - I'm curious to know how you came up with the torque numbers for the ACT PP and the SB discs.

 

[twicks69]

Consider the torque capacity of a 2100 PP with a street disk, and consider the capacity of the 2600 PP with street disk. There is a 20% torque rating differentiation.

I am not saying that this is correct, or that I have some cool calculation to derive torque capacity of the disks. If you want that, you can contact ACT or South Bend Clutch and have them tell you.

Either way it would be based on surface area vs. friction coefficient vs. loss of friction due to heat, etc.


I have already proven that the SBC kevlar disk easily outlasted my street disks and 6-pucks when the car was putting down 500-600whp with 450-550tq.

I would usually get around 3000-9000 miles on a street disk, and less than 3000 on my 6-pucks, while having over 30,000miles and a large volume of dyno time, track time and launches on much higher horsepower on the SBC kevlar disk.

He asked for my reccomendation, and this is mine. You don't have to buy the product -- that is your decision and your money.

 

[DGajre777]

That's what I thought. I was just wondering if you or anyone had concrete torque numbers on the ACT 2100 and the SB disc.

 

[just2asian]

Here's ACT's website that show all the torque number, just select the clutch. http://www.advancedclutch.com/1205884/0/0/0/1997_MITSUBISHI_ECLIPSE_GSX_L4_2.0L_T_FI_(4G63).html

 

[DGajre777]

Here's ACT's website that show all the torque number, just select the clutch. http://www.advancedclutch.com/1205884/0/0/0/1997_MITSUBISHI_ECLIPSE_GSX_L4_2.0L_T_FI_(4G63).html

Yeah, that's with their street disc and puck disc. The torque numbers go up or down (up with street and down with puck) when used with the SB kevlar disc. Torque numbers are not just based on the pressure plate, the disc you use changes the numbers too.

 

[eboy0]

Yeah, that's with their street disc and puck disc. The torque numbers go up or down (up with street and down with puck) when used with the SB kevlar disc. Torque numbers are not just based on the pressure plate, the disc you use changes the numbers too.

Where are you seeing this? "The torque numbers go up or down (up with street and down with puck) when used with the SB kevlar disc."

 

[DGajre777]

Where are you seeing this? "The torque numbers go up or down (up with street and down with puck) when used with the SB kevlar disc."

I don't see it, I know it. It is common knowledge. Torque capacities are based on 2 clutch parts - the pressure plate and the clutch disc. A street disc holds less torque than a kevlar disc and a kevlar disc holds less torque than a ceramic disc when mated with the same pressure plate because it has to do with clamping force of the disc. We know that the ACT 2100 with a 6 puck ceramic disc holds more torque than a 2600 with a street disc, but when you throw the SB disc in the mix you won't have concrete numbers.

Your best bet for a 400hp AWD car would be to go with the ACT 2600 and the SB disc simply because I've heard of ACT street discs not lasting long and you don't want to get an ACT2100 with SB disc that may not hold as much torque as your car may put out.

 

[Savage Talon]

Since were talking about the SB disc in here I thought I would chime in with some useless info on it. I just got one and I have decided to mate it to a CFDF P-plate that I have. The disc is a Exedy disc made in Japan, and has a DK number of MBD081U.

 

[eboy0]

Weird.... is it a modified exedy disc, because the one I received from HPF is also an Exedy, made in japan with the same part number.... what's going on here?

 

[twicks69]

Companies do it all the time. There are a few clutch makers, and a ton of companies taking their parts and using it in their applications. Nothing new.

If you have questions regarding the clutch, call South Bend Clutch and have them answer it.

What does it matter if Exedy or Daikin or whoever else sells their disk to a different manufacturer. You think ACT, Competition Clutch, Clutchmasters, Fidanza, Slowboy Racing, Spec, Clutchnet, Centerforce, PowerTrain Technologies, Quartermaster, Tilton, OS Giken, etc actually make their own friction materials? Not likely. We have third world countries at our disposal to make these nifty little products at a cheap price, then we rebadge it, increase the price, sell it and make a profit.