Flywheel bolts for a Fidanza Flywheel?

[kristmen]

I just picked up a Fidanza flywheel for my 6bolt awd. I also got one of the A/T flex plate spacer rings to use with it.

I was told that because this setup is thicker, I need longer bolts. Something about 4.5 mm longer bolts that are oem?

What model dsm had the 4.5mm longer bolts? Someone told me 2G, someone else said ya I think its 2G but I think its 2G Automatic...

I tried searching and couldnt find anything. Anyone know or know where there is a thread with this info?

 

[Mindslayer]

You can go to Force Performance and buy the kit like I did for 45 bucks. I got it this week when i brought my cams.

 

[Dauntless]

Hmm, this is a timely topic, as I am thinking of buying a Fidanza for my new 6-bolt. Do they always need the spacer and special bolts? I've looked at a number of websites selling these flywheels, yet none have mentioned this. Thanks!

 

[Mindslayer]

Its best to be safe than sorry,IMO

 

[kristmen]

You can go to Force Performance and buy the kit like I did for 45 bucks. I got it this week when i brought my cams.

That doesnt really tell me what I want to know. I want to know what kinda bolts they use with that kit. That kits some what over priced. I already have that A/T spacer there kit includes anyway. I paid $6 dollars for it from the dealer.

Then I called the local Honda dealer who sells Mitsubishi parts, 2G A/T flywheel bolts are $1.97 each and they are Mitsubishi OEM, not some off brand.

Stainless high grade studs and copper lock washers are like another $10 locally too.

Cheaper then ordering that FP kit.

I just need to verify the bolts are infact 2G A/T and not 2G M/T.

 

[kristmen]

Hmm, this is a timely topic, as I am thinking of buying a Fidanza for my new 6-bolt. Do they always need the spacer and special bolts? I've looked at a number of websites selling these flywheels, yet none have mentioned this. Thanks!

Yes its a good idea to use the spacer and longer bolts. The Fidzana flywheel is 4mm thicker then the stock flywheel so you get less bolt threads in the crank. They tend to come loose even with loctite.

The simple fix it to buy the OEM bolts that are 4.5mm longer and then the automatic flywheel spacer plate. The plate sits on the flywheel so the heads of the bolt mate againest steel instead of the aluminum of the flywheel. This allows for more torque plus it doesnt mess up your pretty new flywheel.

In some cases you need to tap out the crank bolt holes with a end tap. The holes are already deep enough though so no drilling is needed. You just need to add a couple extra threads so the bolts dont bottom out on the threads. If they bottom out on the threads the bolts might not be tight enough and cause them to come loose.

Then I've spoke to others like Scott Grey and Josh Jones who use normal M/T 1G bolts without issue. Anyone who knows these guys knows they know there shit.

I guess I just want go the safest route myself to avoid issues later.

 

[Evil1gDsm]

I just picked up a Fidanza flywheel for my 6bolt awd. I also got one of the A/T flex plate spacer rings to use with it.

I was told that because this setup is thicker, I need longer bolts. Something about 4.5 mm longer bolts that are oem?

What model dsm had the 4.5mm longer bolts? Someone told me 2G, someone else said ya I think its 2G but I think its 2G Automatic...

I tried searching and couldnt find anything. Anyone know or know where there is a thread with this info?

me and my buddy did mine this past weekend...I just bought new flywheel bolts..Worked / is working fine for me!...dan

 

[kristmen]

me and my buddy did mine this past weekend...I just bought new flywheel bolts..Worked / is working fine for me!...dan

I assume you mean you just bought new stock flywheel bolts.

Yes I'm sure it worked fine if you just did it this past week. Hell you might never have issues depending how you drive your car.

If you used a Fidanza flywheel though its 4mm thicker thus meaning less of the bolt threads are in the crank now. Meaning the bolts dont have the same thread torque they did before.

Down the road it could come loose and trash the flywheel and crank.

I just want to take all possable steps to avoid this from the start rather then bitching later because I didnt do something I could have from the start =)

I'm almost thinking about buying a set of Supra flywheel bolts from ARP. They have one thats thread pitch matches a DSM and they are like 5.x mm longer too. You can torque the HELL ouf of them too because they are stronger then oem DSM flywheel bolts plus they are longer yet so you get more thread contact.

 

[Rob Rohr]

Yes its a good idea to use the spacer and longer bolts. The Fidzana flywheel is 4mm thicker then the stock flywheel so you get less bolt threads in the crank. They tend to come loose even with loctite.

The simple fix it to buy the OEM bolts that are 4.5mm longer and then the automatic flywheel spacer plate. The plate sits on the flywheel so the heads of the bolt mate againest steel instead of the aluminum of the flywheel. This allows for more torque plus it doesnt mess up your pretty new flywheel.

This great info Does anyone have the A/T spacer plate part # handy?

Anyone else found a good inexpensive bolt from another car for this application? It can't be that hard to find longer bolts. Anyone know the bolt size, length and thread pitch?

 

[kristmen]

This great info Does anyone have the A/T spacer plate part # handy?

Anyone else found a good inexpensive bolt from another car for this application? It can't be that hard to find longer bolts. Anyone know the bolt size, length and thread pitch?

Yes it's MD952138 for the 6 bolt a/t spacer and MD760086 for the 7 bolt. If you want to see what the spacer looks like, its the metal plate with the bolt holes in it located here:

http://linux.forcedperformance.net/...Product_Code=FPFWkit&Category_Code=DSM-Engine

Although I pieced the kit together myself for less.

I talked to some people running these bolts and they all say 2G a/t bolts so thats what I ordered.

They cost me like $1.97 each I think it was. Will be at the dealer Friday and I'll know for sure if they are the right ones altho everyone says yes so I'm sure they are.

Don't forget you need to end tap the crank in most cases. Make sure it is an end tap though, not a normal tap.

 

[91_talon_at]

the botl pattern of the bolts are the same as the exhaust manifold studs. you acutally can get it about any auto parts store. 8mmx1.25 is the thread size. i just used exhaust manifold studs which were about the length that FP suggested and got some lock washers and nuts. works like a charm!

 

[kristmen]

I thought we were talking about the flywheel bolts

Anyway I looked threw caps. I cant figure out for sure which bolts are the longer ones. I'm going to do some calling around tomarrow.

I did find a part number for a 12x26mm flywheel bolt though. The stock M/T ones 12x22.5mm. Thats like an extra 3.5 mm which would help make up for the fact the Fidanza is 4mm thicker but I know there is a 4.5mm one too.

 

[Rob Rohr]

I did find a part number for a 12x26mm flywheel bolt though. The stock M/T ones 12x22.5mm. Thats like an extra 3.5 mm which would help make up for the fact the Fidanza is 4mm thicker but I know there is a 4.5mm one too.

Now I am confused I think we are talking about the bolts that hold the flywheel to the crank, right? If you found some that are 3.5mm longer those would be great. Do you have the part #? I don't want to mess around taping the crank so I will go slightly shorter rather than longer.

Thanks for your help

 

[xEM1x]

I have a fidanza 8lbs 6bolt flywheel, I bought new OEM Flywheel bolts. I measured and it is no where near 4mm its like 1/3 of a mm. No clue where you guys are getting your facts about fidanza. At least for a 6 bolt flywheel.
I would not even be half a thread difference. Dont worry about it, how many people do you hear on the board saying their flywheel bolts flew off?

IDK, IMO i wouldnt buy a kit to install a flywheel. Unless fidanza or ACT recomended it.

-Brian

 

[kristmen]

I have a fidanza 8lbs 6bolt flywheel, I bought new OEM Flywheel bolts. I measured and it is no where near 4mm its like 1/3 of a mm. No clue where you guys are getting your facts about fidanza. At least for a 6 bolt flywheel.
I would not even be half a thread difference. Dont worry about it, how many people do you hear on the board saying their flywheel bolts flew off?

IDK, IMO i wouldnt buy a kit to install a flywheel. Unless fidanza or ACT recomended it.

-Brian

Quite a few have had the flywheel come loose because of this. In fact people I personally know have had them come loose because of this. It trashed there flywheel and crank.

Look around man. Others have measured the Fidanza too and there’s are 4mm thicker.

In fact I've never heard of anyone say its not thicker by 4mm. You are the first.

A quote from FP's webpage.

"Many do not realize this fact but many aftermarket aluminum flywheels are 4mm thicker in the bolt flange area than the stock DSM flywheel. Using stock length bolts results in insignificant thread engagement and reduced clamping strength as well as contributing to the bolts just plain coming out of the crank and the flywheel coming loose!

Our hardware kit replaces the stock bolts with high quality OEM grade bolts that are 4.5mm longer than stock to get achieve proper thread engagement and eliminate bolt loosening."

This includes the Fidanza.

I found some bolts that are 3.5 mm thicker and I'll post the part number later for those of you who want it.

I ended up going with ARP Toyota Supra Flywheel bolts which are 5.4mm longer then stock. We checked my bolt holes, checked my thread took measurements on the a/t spacer, flywheel and bolts and found even at 5.4mm longer we don’t need to end tap my crank it seems.

We are going to go over the math again tomorrow but my friends 99% positive we are good to go.

 

[xEM1x]

kristmen, I will supply pictures tomorrow. I think all the newer fidanza's are the same size now.

 

[Mindslayer]

I have a fidanza 8lbs 6bolt flywheel, I bought new OEM Flywheel bolts. I measured and it is no where near 4mm its like 1/3 of a mm. No clue where you guys are getting your facts about fidanza. At least for a 6 bolt flywheel.
I would not even be half a thread difference. Dont worry about it, how many people do you hear on the board saying their flywheel bolts flew off?

IDK, IMO i wouldnt buy a kit to install a flywheel. Unless fidanza or ACT recomended it.

-Brian

Force Performance knows what they are talking about. I've been around the dsm world for 7 years. And I respect them and what they say. Alot of the top FASTEST DSM use their products. And they do their research and show and prove. So just because you flywheel havn't came off yet. Don't mean it's not true. I rather be save than sorry before you mess up your tranny or worst. The kit is 45 bucks if you don't have 45 bucks.Or want to spend 45 bucks why you driving a DSM. Gas alone is that for a week or two.

 

[xEM1x]

I measured and they came out like this, is my flywheel still going to fall off?
It comes out to be maybe a thread or less difference, i measured again and the thickness was the same for the holes. I am a proud owner of a DSM, i have spent a lot of money on parts for my car. All im saying is check before you buy, its simple. I know forced performance is a good company, I was not bashing them at all. I have a few of their products. All and all here is my pics: the pic 3 is the Fidanza, and pic 4 is stock.

 

[kristmen]

I'll take you some pictures of my m/t bolts vs. a/t bolts vs. ARP bolts tonight too.

I don’t know man, everyone has different experiences but I do trust FP's knowledge. Its not just them though. A lot of people say the same thing. From what I’ve seen, they are right.

 

[xEM1x]

I'll take you some pictures of my m/t bolts vs. a/t bolts vs. ARP bolts tonight too.

I don’t know man, everyone has different experiences but I do trust FP's knowledge. Its not just them though. A lot of people say the same thing. From what I’ve seen, they are right.

What are you trying to say? My bolts thread the same with the aftermarket flywheel as well as my stock one? Does that mean the flywheel that came with my car from the factory is gonna break off?

Im just saying, not all aluminum flywheels are the 4mm thicker, FP's site even states that.

"Factory and some aluminum flywheels are .400" thick at the flange, other aluminum flywheels are .500" thick, which makes a longer bolt necessary. Either way the extra length provides fastener stability." -FP.com

Not every fidanza needs that kit. Do some research before you buy is all im trying to get across.
-Brian

 

[Evil1gDsm]

I assume you mean you just bought new stock flywheel bolts.

Yes I'm sure it worked fine if you just did it this past week. Hell you might never have issues depending how you drive your car.

If you used a Fidanza flywheel though its 4mm thicker thus meaning less of the bolt threads are in the crank now. Meaning the bolts dont have the same thread torque they did before.

Down the road it could come loose and trash the flywheel and crank.

I just want to take all possable steps to avoid this from the start rather then bitching later because I didnt do something I could have from the start =)

I'm almost thinking about buying a set of Supra flywheel bolts from ARP. They have one thats thread pitch matches a DSM and they are like 5.x mm longer too. You can torque the HELL ouf of them too because they are stronger then oem DSM flywheel bolts plus they are longer yet so you get more thread contact.

When i bought my Flywheel, from AMS I asked them..They said to use standard flywheel bolts...Then when i bought my clutch from Slowboy Racin, i ask them...They said the same, i may have a problem and i may not...But those are 2 very well known companies...And their word is trusting...but that's what i think man....do what ya gotta do...dan

 

[kristmen]

You understand I'm saying part of what plays into needing longer bolts IS the spacer right? The spacer is 1.5mm thick too.

I assume you understand why its used too correct?

 

[xEM1x]

You understand I'm saying part of what plays into needing longer bolts IS the spacer right? The spacer is 1.5mm thick too.

I assume you understand why its used too correct?

Using the spacer which is used to keep your flywheel straight, the thread length would still be the same in my case, it came factory with that much threaded into the crank. My flywheel is the same thickness as my stock one, hense same thread length. I dont think everyones factory flywheel bolts would be coming off anytime soon.

Measure your flywheel with a bolt and then determine if you need to buy a $45 kit.

 

[dmc67]

ok guys I have a question, Are all Manual flywheel bolts the same off DSM's? I mean Turbo NOn-Turbo 1.8 and 2.0? and also on the stock flywheel and I posed too put the AT spacer on it also? or is it just for the Fidanza flywheel? I have 5 bolts from a 1.8 MT and I have 6 bolts from a 2.0 Turbo MT and the ones from teh 1.8 motor have maybe 3 or 4 more threads, so what I ams king is if I used the 5 from the 1.8 and 2 from the Turbo would it throw my crank off balance and F^*) something up?

Thanks

 

[kristmen]

Using the spacer which is used to keep your flywheel straight, the thread length would still be the same in my case, it came factory with that much threaded into the crank. My flywheel is the same thickness as my stock one, hense same thread length. I dont think everyones factory flywheel bolts would be coming off anytime soon.

Measure your flywheel with a bolt and then determine if you need to buy a $45 kit.

Keep the bolts straight? I cant tell if you are kidding or not. No thats not why it's used. Why do you need to keep the bolts straght? They go in straight on there own.

Its used to keep the hardend bolts from chewing up the flywheel and marking it up and distributes the bolt loading more evenly. Also keeps the bolts from denting into the soft aluminum which can cause it to come loose later down the road. Over time the heat and viberation can cause the bolts to sorta sink into the flywheel just enough to make it start to come loose. They dont do that with the steel plate there or atleast not at easy.

So now one would say ok its a good idea to use this plate. Well its 1.5mm thicker so thats another 1.5 mm less bolt you have and you only had like 8.x mm of bolt in the first place then maybe depending on the brand of flywheel you buy its upto 5mm thicker. Mine was just under 4mm thicker btw so we had like 3.9mm thicker on the flywheel and 1.5 thick on the plate and only 8.x something of bolt in the first place and now there is about half of that.

Thats just to short for comfort. Even if the flywheel is the exact same spec taking away 1.5mm can be problematic. You say well its only a thread or 2 but only a thread or 2 can affect bolt to crank torque and yeild.

Sure alot of people use stock bolts with a flywheel that is confirmed to be 4mm thicker and that 1.5 mm plate and never have issues. Then alot of people do it and have major issues. There flywheel bolts come out and it distroys the flywheel and crank.

I've seen a few people personally have this happen and I'm simply trying to avoid it.

Anyway I decided to go with ARP Toyota Supra bolts like Kevin Kiggly runs and it seems ALOT of other DSM'ers who run this flywheel and spacer run them too. They are 5.4mm longer then stock M/T bolts and rated at like 220,000 or something crazy. You can torque the HELL out of them too.

Anyway for anyone who cares here are the spec's on all the DSM flywheel and flexplate bolts.

1G M/T Bolts 12x22.5mm
1G A/T Bolts 12x17mm
2G M/T Bolts 12x21.2mm
2G A/T Bolts 12x11.7mm

Then you can get some that are 12x26mm too and those are part number MD008839.

That could be a good way to go for some people too. My local dealer can get them for $1.97 each altho others charge at much as $6 dollars a bolt.