dog gears vs synchros

[sophat34]

I was talkign to some guy on the phone who claims to be in devopment of a dog gear engagement tranmission for the dsm's I have searched the net for a while and still have not figured out how these things work. how do they shift diffrent than a synchro transmission. also I was told that I wouldnt have to use a clutch to shift. again can any one tell me how? one last thing, the evo's have dog gear sets avalable for them, assuming that these tranmissions are simmaler to ours across the pond wouldnt the gear sets be sets be usable in our cars. just a thought because the gear sets are half the price of this "dog gear" transmission and they are avalble now not in a few months
thanks

 

[Rallsport]

http://www.albinsgear.com.au/

They have dogbox gear sets for EVO I/II/III. I don't know if these will fit in a 95-99 DSM or not? Wisemen? I saw it mentioned in another thread that group-A autosports imports them, but I couldn't find anything on the web about it. Also, on Ben's Rally page under parts there are two Ralliart dogboxes for sale ($18k for two or $10k for one) that have magnesium cases.

 

[Rallsport]

Here is an email I sent to them and their response...not bad considering its about $3k USD for the 5 speed and about $4.5k USD for the 6 speed.



Hello, I'm looking for some transmission bits that can take the abuse of road racing and rallycrossing. I found your site and I have a couple of questions.

1. Would the transmission gear sets for the EVO I, II, III fit in the Diamond Star Motors (Eagle Talon, Mitsubishi Eclipse) 1995-1999 transmission?

2. With the dog engagement it can do clutch less up shifts, correct? Downshifts still require clutch? What is recommended operation of the gear sets?

3. The motor we are building will produce approximately 360-390 horsepower/350-375 lb-ft torque, is this an issue for these gear sets?

4. Pricing for both 5speed and 6speed gear sets?

I look forward to corresponding with you and thank you for your time.

***************Response************
Thank-you for your inquiry into Albins Off Road Gear Pty Ltd. I hope we can
give you all the information that you require.

Answers to all your questions.
1/. Yes, the Evo III kit will fit the Eagle Talon and the Mitsubishi
Eclipse.

2/. Everybody has different ways. Normally what you are saying is what
people do. Generally using the clutch will cause less damage to the dogs but
it really all depends on the driver.

3/. The amount of horse power is not an issue for the gear kit. Over 400
horsepower has regularly been use. Once again the life of the gear box is
dependant on the driver, some drivers can break anything!!

4/. Price for the 5 Speed Dog change kit is AUD$ 5,400.00 and AUD$ 7,600.00
for the 6 Speed Dog Change kit. The 6 Speed requires initial assembly by us,
cost is AUD$ 600.00.

I hope this information is of some use to you. If you require further
information please contact us again.

Regards,

Melissa Albins.
Sales Manager.
Albins Off Road Gear Pty Ltd.

 

[sophat34]

looks like I am sending a transmission to australia soon, I like the sound of the six speed. then I could keep up whith that d@#$ saline that likes to play over 160mph on the interstate
thanks for the info

 

[GSX_RCR]

Saline?

Or did you mean SALEEN?

How well do dog gears how up to hard AWD launches?

And are you SURE that the EVO III tranny will fit a DSM?....1G specifically. Cuz if that's the case....

 

[sophat34]

yea I spelled it wrong, its a mustang who cares though . ne way its not the tranny, just the gears in side, I may just buy the one that magnus will have one avalble shortly, they have been beating on it for most of the drag season, havent broken it yet and thats almost the identical set up that I have, minus the monster turbo I only run a 20g and the 4g64 hybrid is sitting in the garadge waiting for me to put it in. I figure I'll jsut sell the one that I ahve now, from tre. and get that one when its out car is put away for winter anyway

 

[kylemoto]

So, the latest thing in a DSM is a dog clutch gearbox, huh?


Well, this should bring out the shifting talent in all of us! First off, a cone clutch synchro (the one we profess to hate) usess the transmission fluid and the cone to act as a brake, slowing the mainshaft assembly to gear speed. This action then allows us to complete the shift into another gear.

A dog clutch has nothing like this. A dog clutch can be though as two pins in the end of a gear - lets say the mainshaft assembly. We want to get into a gear, so what we have to do is match the mainshaft assembly EXACTLY to the speed of the gear. Remember, we are trying to engage the two dogs, or pins. The rest of the transmission will provide no help at all in shifting.

You can practice shifting like this. Simply don't use the clutch for any shifts, up or down. If you continuously shift in and out of gear with no backlash (gear grinding), congrats. You will have to do this all the time.

Don't get me wrong, dog clutches have their place - no resistance to shifting at all, so there is no time lost waiting for synchros to match things up. All I'm saying that they are not easy to master!


Good luck!

Kyle

 

[ZSPTurbo]

like kyle said: dogbox = tough

I have driven one, and it just didnt like me one bit.

 

[boost]

Most dog gears are straight cut gears not helical cut like the stock ones. Reverse gear in the stock tranny is straight cut, like that cool whining sound it makes when you use it? Well get use to it if you plan on using a dog box. They are very noisy in every gear because of the straight cut gears, but alot stronger because you have a better contact pattern of the gears. I recommend them for race use only.

 

[Rallsport]

I agree the dogbox is a race only item, not for the inexperienced. I am looking at this option for road racing and rally crossing. Rally crossing is particularly abusive on the gearbox and I really don't feel that the stock unit would be up for the task. The strength of the transmission is the primary concern for my application.

 

[chronohunter]

Another option that is more daily driver friendly is getting EVO III internals for your current tranny. I have one done by TRE and it shifts perfectly smooth and very, very fast with no grinding ever! I can put it into first (for all the hairpin turns) at 25mph without complaint. Works great for rallycross!

 

[sophat34]

I have the tre tranmission, I am happy with it. but, I the engine that is going in this winter will break it from what I have been told. so I am looking for somthing that I wont break as easy. so the tre tranny with double synchros for 1&2 and 3&4 with the tre spec 1st and 2nd gear and heavy duty 3&4th gear set with 4500 miles on it will be on its way out.

 

[Rallsport]

Does anybody currently have a dogbox? Please describe what you have, how it works, and the cost.

 

[J4Y5iN]

Originally posted by sophat34
I have the tre tranmission, I am happy with it. but, I the engine that is going in this winter will break it from what I have been told. so I am looking for somthing that I wont break as easy. so the tre tranny with double synchros for 1&2 and 3&4 with the tre spec 1st and 2nd gear and heavy duty 3&4th gear set with 4500 miles on it will be on its way out.

If it's going out, is it for sale?

 

[sophat34]

yes it will be as soon as the dog gear one
is avalble from magnus