2.0nt eagle tranny on 90 GST eclipse

[saniutza]

i juts bought this 90 Eclipse GTS and i need a new tranny. i drive a 93 eagle talon 2.0 nt and i was just courious if the 93 tranny will fit the 90 eclipse. tnx

 

[97GSTURBO]

Yes it will fit, but the NT tranny has different gearing so you might not get desired results. Hope that helps!

 

[TimG]

The gear ratios on the N/T is better then the FWD turbo, but not as good as the AWD tranny for 1/4 mile racing. Very strong and will hold the boost very well (well as much as mitsubishi trannies can). I think your flywheel might be too big to fit, I know someone had a problem similar to that, but just make sure before you do it.

 

[mavisky]

Originally posted by 97GSTURBO
Yes it will fit, but the NT tranny has different gearing so you might not get desired results. Hope that helps!

wrong....

it will not fit. true the ratios are shorter, but my 14.5@ 104 tells me that's not that big of a deal. in fact it pulls harder than any fwd turbo i've ever been in.

but back to why it won't fit. the turbo's (as you know) utilize a stepped flywheel and the nt's as you would've soon found out utilize a smooth non-stepped flyhwheel. also the flywheel is larger in diameter on the turbo car. trust me i tried to install my nt tranny around the clutch and flywheel of a 1g awd when i picked up my engine, and the awd is slightly smaller than the fwd. needless to say it didn't fit. now if you were to grind off the locating tab on the end of the crank and install both the nt flywheel and clutch you could use the nt tranny. only problem there is you had better stay out of the boost. even at stock boost levels i fried my nt clutch in a matter of weeks.

my advice. fix it right and fix it once.

 

[xhypno]

dumb statement mavisky, They all use a steped flywheel, just some NT flywheels have been change over the years, to a cheaper no steped one. The nt tranny will work fine, as long as you use either an original nt flywheel, or an after market one and the nt starter. I have done the swap on about 5 of my friends car, and all but 1 of them didn't work, because it was a nt awd tranny from a 94 esi awd (very rare car) and he couldn't get a flywheel for it. The swap took a minimum of 4 tenths off of their 1/4mile and on my friend with the heavily modded TSI FWD, it took almost a second off of his time. But the down fall is top end. It is reduced to around 140 - 150, were I have been in some turbos that can hit 170+. this can be avoided though, with a rebuild and a custom taller 5th gear.

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by xhypno
I have done the swap on about 5 of my friends car, and all but 1 of them didn't work, because it was a nt awd tranny from a 94 esi awd (very rare car) and he couldn't get a flywheel for it. The swap took a minimum of 4 tenths off of their 1/4mile and on my friend with the heavily modded TSI FWD, it took almost a second off of his time. But the down fall is top end. It is reduced to around 140 - 150, were I have been in some turbos that can hit 170+. this can be avoided though, with a rebuild and a custom taller 5th gear.

What the fvck are you smoking? Please show me this mythical 94 ESi AWD. Please. I am begging you.

 

[mavisky]

Originally posted by xhypno
dumb statement mavisky, They all use a steped flywheel, just some NT flywheels have been change over the years, to a cheaper no steped one. The nt tranny will work fine, as long as you use either an original nt flywheel, or an after market one and the nt starter. I have done the swap on about 5 of my friends car, and all but 1 of them didn't work, because it was a nt awd tranny from a 94 esi awd (very rare car) and he couldn't get a flywheel for it. The swap took a minimum of 4 tenths off of their 1/4mile and on my friend with the heavily modded TSI FWD, it took almost a second off of his time. But the down fall is top end. It is reduced to around 140 - 150, were I have been in some turbos that can hit 170+. this can be avoided though, with a rebuild and a custom taller 5th gear.

you know what's scary some guy told me you knew what you're talking about , that's scary.

first off i have never once seen a nt dsm with stepped flywheel. i have workled on 3 different years of 2.0 nt's and have yet to see one in my entire life. are you honestly trying to say that all the cars i worked on had some sort of "aftermarket" or "special" flywheel that no other dsm had. i'd like you to go ask one of the local mitsu techs about these special cars and have them tell you its stock on all nt's.

yes the swap will work if he uses the original nt flywheel, but he'd damn well better get an upgraded clutch. trust me i fried the nt one with in two weeks, and it was slipping the first day.

there wasn't , isn't, and never will be a nt dsm that came from the factory with awd. the closest thing to this was the galant gsx (not vr4) that was an awd nt galant.

i believe the gearing did help them in the quarter as the lower 4 gears are quite a bit lower, but your point about top speed shows your pure stuoidity. anyone with a 2.0 nt can go out on any day and prove you wrong. how you ask. simple. go out and run your car up to 3500rpm in 5th gear. now double the speed on your speedometer. i dunno about your special tranny in yours or your friend's (might be more nt awd tranny's) but mine reads 85 mph at 3500 rpm. simple math tells me that i should have a top end of at least 170mph at 7000rpm. have you been to 170mph lately, didn't think so. so i don't really see a problem here. even if you did have some crazed desire to push the 200mph barrier all you need is a stronger valvetrain and a missing rev-limiter and at 8000rpm you'll be closing in on 190 mph.

 

[xhypno]

WOW! You really got me there.......

For your knowledge and education... Learn before you speak!!!!!!!! I have been working on turbo and non-turbo alike, for almost 4 years now. I just think it is funny that some people talk, and act like they know what they are talking about and have no clue. I have seen first hand and driven, my uncles 1994 GSX non-turbo special edition eclipse. The same one that was made along with 499 others. the NT 4G63 2.4L engine is in it. The same engine as in the Galant. The car was rare, but it did exist. I spent the better half of a year trying to find one, and to my shock, I found 3. Two were in awsome condition, but the owners wouldn't part with them, and the third was at a junk yard, with only 1/3 of the car left. So I settled on the ES Special Edition that is my current project car. I have spent mant days in the junkards pull parts from 100's of 1gnt's to get spares and things I needed, and out of the 100 plus cars I pulled parts from, only 12 had a none stepped flywheel.

True the clutch wouldn't hold out. That is a no brainer, the nt clutch is only made to handle up to 150hp at the flywheel, any more then that and it is toast. I learned that when I turboed my car. But all that is needed is an upgraded clutch. Just not an ACT2600, They have a bad problem with killing the NT trannies.

And for the top speed of an NT. It is simple math.... The higher the final drive the higher the top speed, as long as the engines power is proportionate. NO, I repeat NO, stock or even moded nt will pass 150, due to the the weak axles and lack of power.

The fast I ever had my NT was when turboed, dynoing at 295hp. I was at MOROSO Speed park, and on the ovale track, in the back stretch, I hit 173 by there radar gun. Now that was with the NT tranny (which has a very bad, low 5th gear ratio), while my friend with his 91 TSI (modded to about 300hp) passed me doing about 185mph.

So the moral of the story don't speak, if you don't know what you are talking about!!!!!!

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by xhypno
I have been working on turbo and non-turbo alike, for almost 4 years now. I just think it is funny that some people talk, and act like they know what they are talking about and have no clue.

Yee who lives in glass houses, should not throw stones.

Originally posted by xhypno
I have seen first hand and driven, my uncles 1994 GSX non-turbo special edition eclipse. The same one that was made along with 499 others. the NT 4G63 2.4L engine is in it.

Do you mean 'special edition' as in 'blew the turbo motor, threw in a nonturbo' edition? I am sure there are more than 499 others of those. By the way, the 4G63 is a 2.0l designation, and a 2 liter only.

 

[mavisky]

i love stubborn idiots, keeps me busy.

1.no engine from mitsubishi with 2.4l of displacement had the vin 4g63, maybe 4g64, but not 4g63.

2. regardless of power made you said the car would have "less topend due to the new tranny" the new tranny has the same 5th gear ratios as the fwd dsm. so it will go just as fast as any fwd turbo dsm. and noone ever said he had the power or would have the power to bury the speedo anyways. ask any fwd dsm'er what speed their car does at 3500 rpm and i guarantee you its 85 mph. the mitsu engineers lowered the firs four ratios so the nt felt more "peppy" but kept the high 5th gear so it got the best mileage of the group.

3. the nt axles aren't any weaker than the stock fwd axles on a fwd turbo dsm. they're identical according to every source i've ever dealt with. and another point axles don't break because you're going fast or because you have too much power. i could make 3000hp through those axles, the instant i had large amounts of traction or wheelhop they'll snap, but speed nor power alone will cause that. i know many guys with 300+ hp who have more issues with traction than axle breakage.

 

[joseph]

I have a NT tranny on my turbo dsm and I can beat other dsm's with the right tranny. You do need a NT flywheel to make this a succesfull swap!and NT starteralso!......and if you get a high performance clutch what ever you buy MAKE SURE IT FITS THE NON-TURBO SPLINES ON THE TRANNY!........Thats were I dont get what one guy said about a ACT 2600 ? i don't think they make a 2600 for a NT!......But i think every one should get NT turbo swap! , just my opinion

 

[fivestardsm]

Originally posted by mavisky

3. the nt axles aren't any weaker than the stock fwd axles on a fwd turbo dsm. they're identical according to every source i've ever dealt with. and another point axles don't break because you're going fast or because you have too much power. i could make 3000hp through those axles, the instant i had large amounts of traction or wheelhop they'll snap, but speed nor power alone will cause that. i know many guys with 300+ hp who have more issues with traction than axle breakage. [/B]

I dont want to get in to your WISE-MENS war, but I'd like to point out that the turbo axles have more splines than the n/t axles(on the tranny side not the wheel bearing side). So, they are stronger in the turbos. I have rebuilt all my own axles, with the 10+ cars I have, Its a must!!!

Steve.

 

[GrocMax]

Gears are narrower on N/T F5M21-22 transmissions. Weaker in the long run.

Trans model number breakdown-

F5MXX

1st digit, F= FWD W= AWD
2nd digit, forward speeds
3rd digit, M= manual A= A/T
4th and 5th, torque capacity factor- 21 is weakest, 33 is strongest.
21 and 22 are N/T models, 31-33 are turbo except Galant GSX W5M31.

I want to see this mythical N/T AWD. If it ain't in CAPS, they didn't build it from the factory that way.

Speaking of CAPS, DL it and use it, and 1/2 the stupid assed arguments are over. Research before posting (incorrect) info.

 

[djpast]

Originally posted by xhypno
WOW! You really got me there.......

For your knowledge and education... Learn before you speak!!!!!!!! I have been working on turbo and non-turbo alike, for almost 4 years now. I just think it is funny that some people talk, and act like they know what they are talking about and have no clue. I have seen first hand and driven, my uncles 1994 GSX non-turbo special edition eclipse. The same one that was made along with 499 others. the NT 4G63 2.4L engine is in it. The same engine as in the Galant. The car was rare, but it did exist. I spent the better half of a year trying to find one, and to my shock, I found 3. Two were in awsome condition, but the owners wouldn't part with them, and the third was at a junk yard, with only 1/3 of the car left. So I settled on the ES Special Edition that is my current project car. I have spent mant days in the junkards pull parts from 100's of 1gnt's to get spares and things I needed, and out of the 100 plus cars I pulled parts from, only 12 had a none stepped flywheel.

True the clutch wouldn't hold out. That is a no brainer, the nt clutch is only made to handle up to 150hp at the flywheel, any more then that and it is toast. I learned that when I turboed my car. But all that is needed is an upgraded clutch. Just not an ACT2600, They have a bad problem with killing the NT trannies.

And for the top speed of an NT. It is simple math.... The higher the final drive the higher the top speed, as long as the engines power is proportionate. NO, I repeat NO, stock or even moded nt will pass 150, due to the the weak axles and lack of power.

The fast I ever had my NT was when turboed, dynoing at 295hp. I was at MOROSO Speed park, and on the ovale track, in the back stretch, I hit 173 by there radar gun. Now that was with the NT tranny (which has a very bad, low 5th gear ratio), while my friend with his 91 TSI (modded to about 300hp) passed me doing about 185mph.

So the moral of the story don't speak, if you don't know what you are talking about!!!!!!

god i wish i could just reach across the screen and beat the ignorance out of you.

 

[mavisky]

Originally posted by fivestardsm


I dont want to get in to your WISE-MENS war, but I'd like to point out that the turbo axles have more splines than the n/t axles(on the tranny side not the wheel bearing side). So, they are stronger in the turbos. I have rebuilt all my own axles, with the 10+ cars I have, Its a must!!!

Steve.

i've since done more research and am on your side of the fence now.

 

[Ricardo]

yea. he went to 185mph on the stock gear ratios of the 4G63 tranny, har har dream on dude!

 

[Ricardo]

What rpm was he at -- 11k ?? We're not hondas, plenty of torque at 4k

 

[fivestardsm]

Originally posted by mavisky



i've since done more research and am on your side of the fence now.

Cool!!!! I'm glad someone understands me.

Steve.

 

[Benwah93awd]

It will work just fine as long as you change the shim between motor and tranny to relocate the starter, get a 1990 non-turbo flywheel and pressure plate. I'm doing the opposite on my 93 Laser 2.0 non-turbo 5 speed. It will have a 90 GST turbo tranny 5 speed with equal length half shafts from a 91 AWD. A turbo 2 step flywheel from a 97 Eclipse GST and new OEM turbo pressure plate, disc, and TOB. To complete the job I had to buy a 90 GST Shim and a 90 AWD output shaft seals for the tranny so the intermediate shaft side doesn't leak. So I've learned alot from this little swap, any question just ask.

 

[92tealTSI]

Originally posted by xhypno
I have seen first hand and driven, my uncles 1994 GSX non-turbo special edition eclipse. The same one that was made along with 499 others. the NT 4G63 2.4L engine is in it.

1994 GSX non-turbo special edition eclipse eh? earlier, you said,

Originally posted by xhypno
"because it was a nt awd tranny from a 94 esi awd (very rare car) "

So was it a 94 "ESi AWD", or a 94 GSX non-turbo special edition eclipse? If your uncle has the car, why not take some pics of it? Hey while your at it, snap a shot of the ID number on the engnie. I would LOVE to see a 2.4L 4G63. All 4G63's have 2.0 Liters of displacement, a 4G64 has 2.4L of displacement. Why the hell would mitsubishi make a non-turbo all wheel drive eclipse a "special edition"? Since they had already been offering a AWD Turbo version of the car, ill bet they thought "hey, since we have a kickass AWD version already, lets make a non turbo AWD version, call it a " GSX non turbo special elipse", and only make 499 of them, ill bet those will sell like hotcakes" My goal in life is to search and find a nonturbo AWD eclipse that came that way from the factory., oh wait nevermind, they dont exist. I am now ready for your response about how I am uneducated, and how I need to "read up". Well hey, ive been "reading up" for the past 3 years, and this is the first time I have ever heard about a AWD N/T eclipse with a 2.4L 4G63

 

[mavisky]

Originally posted by 92tealTSI


1994 GSX non-turbo special edition eclipse eh? earlier, you said,



So was it a 94 "ESi AWD", or a 94 GSX non-turbo special edition eclipse? If your uncle has the car, why not take some pics of it? Hey while your at it, snap a shot of the ID number on the engnie. I would LOVE to see a 2.4L 4G63. All 4G63's have 2.0 Liters of displacement, a 4G64 has 2.4L of displacement. Why the hell would mitsubishi make a non-turbo all wheel drive eclipse a "special edition"? Since they had already been offering a AWD Turbo version of the car, ill bet they thought "hey, since we have a kickass AWD version already, lets make a non turbo AWD version, call it a " GSX non turbo special elipse", and only make 499 of them, ill bet those will sell like hotcakes" My goal in life is to search and find a nonturbo AWD eclipse that came that way from the factory., oh wait nevermind, they dont exist. I am now ready for your response about how I am uneducated, and how I need to "read up". Well hey, ive been "reading up" for the past 3 years, and this is the first time I have ever heard about a AWD N/T eclipse with a 2.4L 4G63

read up on your dsm knowledge.....................and you'll find that i already confronted him before and didn't get any real info.


also mitsu actually was dumb enough to make an nt galant gsx. yep a galant vr4 with an nt engine. not sure why, i'm thinking safety of awd or something. not that his claim is true, but showing that mitsu is dumb enough to do something like that.

 

[92tealTSI]

Im well aware that Mitsubishi offered a AWD non turbo model of the Galant (GSX), and the AWD Turbo version (VR-4). I was confronting xhypno, not you mavisky. I never really took into account that mitsu did the same for the galant, however, the VR-4s were considere limited edition, as it says on their plaques on the dashboards, and he is saying that the ESi AWD was some sort of limited edition. If they were so rare, im sure most others in the DSM community would know that they exist and someone might possibly own one. Mike

 

[mavisky]

Originally posted by 92tealTSI
Im well aware that Mitsubishi offered a AWD non turbo model of the Galant (GSX), and the AWD Turbo version (VR-4). I was confronting xhypno, not you mavisky. I never really took into account that mitsu did the same for the galant, however, the VR-4s were considere limited edition, as it says on their plaques on the dashboards, and he is saying that the ESi AWD was some sort of limited edition. If they were so rare, im sure most others in the DSM community would know that they exist and someone might possibly own one. Mike

oh i know who you were confronting, i just forgot to add this guy --->

actually i think both the vr4 and the gsx were of rare build numbers, although i think that had alot to do with the fact that the gsx galant didn't sell for $hit.

 

[Tevenor]

The non-turbo Galant GSX is actually a lot more rare than the Galant VR-4's.

 

[CarbonDSM]

I have had my NT almost to 200mph. Oh and then I woke up and was only doing 135. This xhypno guy is making me laugh and annoyed at the same time. I just wish I could get my hands on one of those extremely rare 4G63 8.9L/Spyder/Twin Turbo/RWD Special Edition 94 Eclipses. Nice to see a familiar face here Mavisky I am poeman over at dsmtalk