1.5 60'?

[Shane2GSX]

Last fall I blew up my center diff, so I upgraded to a Shep Stage 3. Just before I blew it up, I ran my best time of 12.1 @ 115 on pump gas with a 1.76 60' (on stock suspension/rims). So I got to thinking, since I'll have an upgraded tranny this year and my goal is 11's, why not try to setup the car for a 1.5 60' on street tires? This would net me an even better 11 on pump.

I don't know how possible this is, and I've searched and can't really find much.

Here's what I'm thinking:
Light weight wheels (going with 17x7.5 Rota Subzero's - about 16.5 lbs.)
Stiffer suspension (adjustable shocks/lowering springs/camber kit)
Prothane motor mount inserts

I have DSMLink, so up the stutter box up to 5500. Think that would net me a 1.59?


Thanks

 

[twicks69]

Last fall I blew up my center diff, so I upgraded to a Shep Stage 3. Just before I blew it up, I ran my best time of 12.1 @ 115 on pump gas with a 1.76 60' (on stock suspension/rims). So I got to thinking, since I'll have an upgraded tranny this year and my goal is 11's, why not try to setup the car for a 1.5 60' on street tires? This would net me an even better 11 on pump.

I don't know how possible this is, and I've searched and can't really find much.

Here's what I'm thinking:
Light weight wheels (going with 17x7.5 Rota Subzero's - about 16.5 lbs.)
Stiffer suspension (adjustable shocks/lowering springs/camber kit)
Prothane motor mount inserts

I have DSMLink, so up the stutter box up to 5500. Think that would net me a 1.59?


Thanks

Tire selection is KEY. As well, I would go with a 16" rim/tire combo to give you a little more sidewall flex when launching -- it will be more forgiving at a lower air pressure than a tire with less sidewall.

Make sure that your motor mounts are taking out ALL of the engine/drivetrain movement. If you can, look for a better quality front and rear motor mount bushing; one that replaces all of the bushing instead of just two little inserts that do nothing.

1.5 60's can be done; alot of it will be the driver. I did pull a heck of alot of 1.5 and 1.6 60's on my Nokian Hakkapeliitta's -- see this link for more information: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/han...a-slipstreams-2g-tire-size.html#post151397970

Though they are a snow tire, the soft sidewall and the extremely soft tread compound creates a tire with excellent traction -- especially at the track!

Good luck,

 

[Shane2GSX]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Although, I'd like to have a 1.5 60', it's not crucial or anything. I'd just like to get it if I could. I've got my heart set on 17's for the simple fact that I think they'll look a lot better. Personal opinion. I even thought about 18's, but I'll compromise and do 17's. So the rims are pretty much set in stone, minus whether I should get 17x7.5 or 17.7? So what's better, another half inch width? Or about half a lb in weight?

So what would you recommend then for motor mount bushings? I take it those are different than inserts? Sorry for my ignorance, I haven't looked into them much. I'll do some reading now that I know it's important.

Wow! That's an interesting tire you showed there! So would that fare well on the street? My setup is geared more for streetability, with occaissonal track use.

 

[twicks69]

17x7.5 with a 245 wide tire would be the way to go then. I must say, that it will be difficult to get better than 1.6 60's -- though they are definitely possible, it will be mainly a result of alot of practice, tire choice, and limiting wheelspin or wheel hop.

For the motor mounts, do a little searching out there, and you should be able to find a better alternative to the two little inserts that energy suspension or prothane always sold. My solid urethane front and rear mounts were custom; I previously had tried the inserts and the vfaq.com window weld urethane install; both had fair to poor results.

As for the tires, I ran the Hakka's for a few years year-round without problems, and put down stellar 60's, and was able to drive in the snow/rain/ice/slush, etc with no worries.

Keep in mind, there are plenty of good performing tires out there; it is a compromise though when you want to have the best of all worlds -- the Hakka's were the best all-round for what I was using them for. They are NOT autocross or roadracing tires; nor are they the best for dry handling performance; they are made to provide ideal traction no matter what the weather condition. And where I live (Wisconsin), we have 9 months of crappy weather with 3 months of summer -- at least that is how it feels.

Snow tires or ice racing tires have been used as "cheater slicks" for a long time; though many people really didn't talk about it. They have a nice soft sidewall, and soft tread compound which react like a slick under low pressure (12-15psi), and can net you those 1.5-1.6 60's while letting you just air up the tire when you are ready to leave the track, and drive the car home.

I currently have a set of the Hakka Rsi's on my GVR4, and I had the Hakka Q's on my eclipse when it was a daily driver.

As for the 17"x7.5" Rota Sub Zero's, plan on running a 3mm aluminum spacer (see Supercar-Engineering.com - Dodge Stealth & Mitsubishi 3000GT Performance for the spacer I used) on the hub to clear the rear spindles with a 245 wide tire; the tire will scrub the upper control arm portion of the spindle, requiring the spacer to clear it. 3mm spacers should run you around $25-$35 for a pair. If you haven't been researching pricing for the Rota Wheels, check out Mach III for the best pricing/shipping around. I have used them several times with excellent results.

 

[slowgsr]

1.7's is still leaving hard dude, especially on street tires, can't complain about that!

for 1.5's you will really be hauling ass, try some bfg drag radials in the widest size you can fit without trimming fenders (within reason), and you want a high spring rate all around.

again you could always go with 4 wheel cheater slicks in a normal size.

are you building boost of the line? Launching off an anti-lag system?

 

[turbosax2]

twicks69:

Did you do something like this for your custom mounts? I quickly searched the forums and that was the best I could find.

Edit: I also searched Google and found this. He completely removed the rubber, placed the metal tube where it should be at, then filled the mount with the urethane. I think this seems like a better approach.

 

[big_d]

I filled my mounts with window weld urethane, and it seemed to stiffen them up a lot...A cheap fix for wheel-hop in my FWD...big_d

 

[red91gst]

What brakes are you running?

We picked up a tenth in the 60' by switching from big ass heavy baer brakes to lightweight brakemans.

An aluminium driveshaft should also be on your list.

Also, depending on what your doing with the car, 15" wheels work the best. Light and a bunch of sidewall. We ran a 15" Motegi Traklite with M/T ET Streets. They were around 26lbs wheel AND tire.

Rotating weight is key for low 60's.

 

[twicks69]

If you are going to do the urethane (window weld) filling of your stock mounts, be sure to fill them using thin layers and a heat gun to help out the curing process. If you just fill them up without using layers, they stay soft and will not cure properly.

Here was the link I used when I did this a couple years ago -- oldie but goodie.
Eliminate Wheel Hop with Filled Motor Mounts

The motor mounts I am currently using were made from 90A urethane that were cut on a lathe, and pressed in as 1-piece. These have zero movement and are used for my front and rear mounts. It has substantially reduced wheel hop and has kept me from breaking transmissions since they were installed. (along with the quarter master clutch).

 

[turbosax2]

A little tid bit of info, if anyone cares. I was curious what the hardness rating of Prothanes mounts were and this was the response I got.

65D, front and rear.
68A, left and right positions.
For the 13-1901 Kit.

 

[20psimitsu]

I guess it's time to get rid of the inserts while the motors out. I had some solid aluminum bushings made for the rear diff and was thinking of making some for thoes mounts. The bushings I made for the rear diff made a huge difference in 60ft's

 

[Shane2GSX]

17x7.5 with a 245 wide tire would be the way to go then. I must say, that it will be difficult to get better than 1.6 60's -- though they are definitely possible, it will be mainly a result of alot of practice, tire choice, and limiting wheelspin or wheel hop.

For the motor mounts, do a little searching out there, and you should be able to find a better alternative to the two little inserts that energy suspension or prothane always sold. My solid urethane front and rear mounts were custom; I previously had tried the inserts and the vfaq.com window weld urethane install; both had fair to poor results.

As for the tires, I ran the Hakka's for a few years year-round without problems, and put down stellar 60's, and was able to drive in the snow/rain/ice/slush, etc with no worries.

Keep in mind, there are plenty of good performing tires out there; it is a compromise though when you want to have the best of all worlds -- the Hakka's were the best all-round for what I was using them for. They are NOT autocross or roadracing tires; nor are they the best for dry handling performance; they are made to provide ideal traction no matter what the weather condition. And where I live (Wisconsin), we have 9 months of crappy weather with 3 months of summer -- at least that is how it feels.

Snow tires or ice racing tires have been used as "cheater slicks" for a long time; though many people really didn't talk about it. They have a nice soft sidewall, and soft tread compound which react like a slick under low pressure (12-15psi), and can net you those 1.5-1.6 60's while letting you just air up the tire when you are ready to leave the track, and drive the car home.

I currently have a set of the Hakka Rsi's on my GVR4, and I had the Hakka Q's on my eclipse when it was a daily driver.

As for the 17"x7.5" Rota Sub Zero's, plan on running a 3mm aluminum spacer on the hub to clear the rear spindles with a 245 wide tire; the tire will scrub the upper control arm portion of the spindle, requiring the spacer to clear it. 3mm spacers should run you around $25-$35 for a pair. If you haven't been researching pricing for the Rota Wheels, check out Mach III for the best pricing/shipping around. I have used them several times with excellent results.

Great info!! Unfortunately, I'm not willing to go to too much trouble to obtain a 1.5 60'. I'm not willing to go to the lengths of custom motor mount bushings or spending time making things fit. Past that, I don't want a ton of engine vibration either, so I may just get some inserts. I dunno yet. But I do appreciate the information.

Haven't selected a tire yet, but I will go at least 235.

As far as suspension goes, I'm thinking Tokico kit (Illuminas and their springs) which provides a 1.75 drop and a good amount of adjustment from what I'm reading.

It appears that a 1.6 60' is a much more reasonable goal considering what I'm willing to do.

Any further recommendations on tires and/or suspension setup is definitely welcome.


Thank you guys for all your help. Twicks, you've been really helpful.

 

[slowgsr]

A little tid bit of info, if anyone cares. I was curious what the hardness rating of Prothanes mounts were and this was the response I got.

The numbers your posted were interesting, i just installed these mounts, i haven't driven the car but judging by the numbers, i shouldn't really experience a whole lot of extreme vibrations as i did with the 90A in my Honda. Maybe now i will be able to use my rear view again !

 

[turbosax2]

The numbers your posted were interesting, i just installed these mounts, i haven't driven the car but judging by the numbers, i shouldn't really experience a whole lot of extreme vibrations as i did with the 90A in my Honda. Maybe now i will be able to use my rear view again !

Ya, they kind of surprised me too on how soft they're rated. I'm planning on making solid 80A or 90A complete replacement mounts for my front and rear mounts instead of using the inserts that Prothane has.

 

[diambo4life]

1.6x's shouldn't be that difficult. I have cut 1.62-1.63 on true street radial UHP tires. That was with completely stock tranny and the 3-bolt rear end on my Talon. Car weighed 3,100lbs with me in it too so it wasn't a tin can either. Major thing is practice.

BTW, I run 17"x7" wheels with 215/45/17 tires.

 

[FonZ454]

1.6x's shouldn't be that difficult. I have cut 1.62-1.63 on true street radial UHP tires. That was with completely stock tranny and the 3-bolt rear end on my Talon. Car weighed 3,100lbs with me in it too so it wasn't a tin can either. Major thing is practice.

BTW, I run 17"x7" wheels with 215/45/17 tires.

Same, higher 1.6x's for me.... on allseason 235/45/17" Avon M550's and stock drivetrain (other than a 2600 and fidanza). A LOT to do with getting a good 60 is technique. I started last year with 1.9s... got consistent 1.7's and then pulled a few 1.6s...

1.5x on a 17" street tire I think is going be be verryy trickey, but like Diambo and others, low 1.6's on a 17" is a great time, I hope to start pulling those consistently.

 

[Black_Bullet]

1.6x's shouldn't be that difficult. I have cut 1.62-1.63 on true street radial UHP tires. That was with completely stock tranny and the 3-bolt rear end on my Talon. Car weighed 3,100lbs with me in it too so it wasn't a tin can either. Major thing is practice.

BTW, I run 17"x7" wheels with 215/45/17 tires.

Just by judging trap speeds you have a lot more power than he does , and 1gs are lighter.
For a 2g with 17s on it 1.7s are good.

My mechanic uses custom welded motor mounts on his 1ga.
He has cut 1.5s on that thing with different 50 trim sized turbos, and his car isnt even as light as mines. My car hasnt done better than a 1.7 something 60' foot.

How much weight reduction have you done. Getting your car significantly lighter is half the battle, overall vehicle weight as a big impact on 60ft, especially on lower powered cars. And like Fonz said, a lot is technique. Properly slipping, and sometimes even preloading the launch.
Sounds like youve got some power though, trapping 115mph on a street setup 2g isnt nothing to sneeze.
It took my dsm some race gas and a lot of boost and timing to trap a best of 115mph, and im sure im way lighter than you.( But you do have a 50trim vs my evo3.)

Anyways the rims im successful with are the 3rd gen Rx7 Rims ( Avatar.)
They are only 12lbs a piece per rim. Thats about as light as your going to get for 16s, and they are 16x8 so i could put some 245s on these things if i wanted to.

Those snow/ice tires sound like a good idea, but how do they perform in rain?
I will be needing some new tires pretty soon, and dont know if im going back to the Hankook RS2's which are good for autox, but i dont know if there best bet for drag.

To the OP, just getting a full prothane motor mount insert kit will be enough for your goals. And as for what launch 2step rpm to use, you will just have to do trial and error to find out what rpm your car launches best on. Im at 5500, anything more and i will blow the launch and spin all four tires, or make the clutch slip some.

Goodluck.

 

[mister_n2o]

I`m pretty sure you guys don`t want slicks, but it`s the way to fly at the track, i was hitting 1.6`s and only trapping between 103-105 that day so the car wasn`t making a whole lot of power.

 

[twicks69]

Those snow/ice tires sound like a good idea, but how do they perform in rain?
I will be needing some new tires pretty soon, and dont know if im going back to the Hankook RS2's which are good for autox, but i dont know if there best bet for drag.

The Hakkapeliitta RSi's are designed to have maximum traction in the worst of weather conditions; I was able to do launches with full traction when the car was in the 400whp range. They are extremely confident tires in rain. You WILL NOT have any issues with hydroplaning on these!

 

[Black_Bullet]

The Hakkapeliitta RSi's are designed to have maximum traction in the worst of weather conditions; I was able to do launches with full traction when the car was in the 400whp range. They are extremely confident tires in rain. You WILL NOT have any issues with hydroplaning on these!

How long do these tires last, i know soft compound doesnt last long everyday driving.
My RS2's on my car now only have about 6k on them and they look worn already.

These tires are sounding really attractive, with such a light rim that I have, when i nlts into 2nd i break one of the rears loose, and 5500 rpm launches takes a good slip to get it to hook, a little too long of a slip and my clutch is getting weak. I dont even have water injection kit yet either so no telling how traction will be for me when i add another 40-50 whp, and i dont want to lower my launch rpm. I def will look into these.

By any chance do you have any links saved that you could send me of were they are found cheap online, or of were you've had best luck with purchasing them.

Edit- I searched and found this page that had info regarding the tires http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/282303-rota-slipstreams-2g-tire-size.html

 

[twicks69]

How long do these tires last, i know soft compound doesnt last long everyday driving.
My RS2's on my car now only have about 6k on them and they look worn already.

These tires are sounding really attractive, with such a light rim that I have, when i nlts into 2nd i break one of the rears loose, and 5500 rpm launches takes a good slip to get it to hook, a little too long of a slip and my clutch is getting weak. I dont even have water injection kit yet either so no telling how traction will be for me when i add another 40-50 whp, and i dont want to lower my launch rpm. I def will look into these.

By any chance do you have any links saved that you could send me of were they are found cheap online, or of were you've had best luck with purchasing them.

Edit- I searched and found this page that had info regarding the tires http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/282303-rota-slipstreams-2g-tire-size.html

I see you did some searching;

When I ran them on the Eclipse, I had around 35,000 miles, 200+ track passes, and countless street launches -- I still had half tread when they were taken off after two years of full-time use.

 

[Slippi84]

You really think the prothane front and rears are that useless to justify doing the mod in that link? The mod looks more than doable but I figured that between the prothane motor mounts all the way around and the prothane suspension setup that would be fine because wheel hop is even more my enemy as i'm fwd.

 

[Black_Bullet]

You really think the prothane front and rears are that useless to justify doing the mod in that link? The mod looks more than doable but I figured that between the prothane motor mounts all the way around and the prothane suspension setup that would be fine because wheel hop is even more my enemy as i'm fwd.

I say get the full prothane kit and be done with it.

Prothane Motion Control 13-1902 - Prothane Motor Mounts - summitracing.com

 

[Slippi84]

I say get the full prothane kit and be done with it.

Prothane Motion Control 13-1902 - Prothane Motor Mounts - summitracing.com

I already have prothane mounts all the way around i'm talking about the prothane suspension bushings set

 

[Black_Bullet]

I already have prothane mounts all the way around i'm talking about the prothane suspension bushings set

Oh ok sorry.

I dont know how this will help on 60 foots but maybe it will if theres a lot of slop in the suspension from old worn bushings. Ive never thought of that.