11's or Nothing (14b record new setup)

[rhamlinii]

Hello to all my fellow dsmers or there. I have decided that I will be going after the 14b AWD record. The fastest i've ever been with a 14b is 12.8 @104 at capitol raceway in Maryland a few years back. Recently with all the buzz over Phil trying to get into the 11s again, touched me. Phil was only running 12.50s when I 1st heard about him. So when Nate from dsmotorsport.com ran 11.70s and then 11.40s, it gave me an idea. After running bigger turbo's, I'm excited to finally have the chance to try this out. My only true fear is that the ACT 2600 will not hold the power. My setup includes...............


Block
1 Y.O built
Eagle Rods (big bolts)
J/E pistons 8.5 to 1
No balance shafts

HEAD

4 Y.O mildly ported/polished 1G head
1mm over stainless valves
3 angle valve job
272/272 HKS Cams
Aem Cam Gears (Dailed In)
EXHAUST SIDE

Ported 2g Manifold w/HKS 40mm RACEGATE
Stock 14b 80k+ w/Ported 7cm turbine housing
HRC 3inch o2 Eliminator
ATR 3inch Catback

Dejan tool 3inch intake w/2G mass and 1g K&N filter
Dejan tool J-Pipe 1.75 to 2.5
Slowboy Racing Street Frontmount Kit
Lightly massaged 1G intake manifold
FUEL SYSTEM

FIC 750cc Injecters
Aeromotive Regulator set to 45 PSI
-6AN lines in Engine Bay
REWIRED Walbro HP 255


NITROUS KIT

NX DP Rail system kit
All Re did with all dash 4 lines
Gen X2 system purge, bottle heater, and blow down tube
Custom 1 Gallon Fuel Cell for nitrous
Aeromotive 700 efi pump for nitrous
Aeromotive Carburated regulator for nitrous set to 8psi
-8an Lines for Nitrous Fuel System

*NITROUS JETS WILL BE SET FOR THE 175 SHOT SETTING*


All will be controlled by DSMLINK, it just works well.

Tuning aids are AEM Wideband, Greedy boost and EGT gauges w/TRE probe.

 

[chrish1440]

Hello to all my fellow dsmers or there. I have decided that I will be going after the 14b AWD record. The fastest i've ever been with a 14b is 12.8 @104 at capitol raceway in Maryland a few years back. Recently with all the buzz over Phil trying to get into the 11s again, touched me. Phil was only running 12.50s when I 1st heard about him. So when Nate from dsmotorsport.com ran 11.70s and then 11.40s, it gave me an idea. After running bigger turbo's, I'm excited to finally have the chance to try this out. My only true fear is that the ACT 2600 will not hold the power. My setup includes...............


Block
1 Y.O built
Eagle Rods (big bolts)
J/E pistons 8.5 to 1
No balance shafts

HEAD

4 Y.O mildly ported/polished 1G head
1mm over stainless valves
3 angle valve job
272/272 HKS Cams
Aem Cam Gears (Dailed In)
EXHAUST SIDE

Ported 2g Manifold w/HKS 40mm RACEGATE
Stock 14b 80k+ w/Ported 7cm turbine housing
HRC 3inch o2 Eliminator
ATR 3inch Catback

Dejan tool 3inch intake w/2G mass and 1g K&N filter
Dejan tool J-Pipe 1.75 to 2.5
Slowboy Racing Street Frontmount Kit
Lightly massaged 1G intake manifold
FUEL SYSTEM

FIC 750cc Injecters
Aeromotive Regulator set to 45 PSI
-6AN lines in Engine Bay
REWIRED Walbro HP 255


NITROUS KIT

NX DP Rail system kit
All Re did with all dash 4 lines
Gen X2 system purge, bottle heater, and blow down tube
Custom 1 Gallon Fuel Cell for nitrous
Aeromotive 700 efi pump for nitrous
Aeromotive Carburated regulator for nitrous set to 8psi
-8an Lines for Nitrous Fuel System

*NITROUS JETS WILL BE SET FOR THE 175 SHOT SETTING*


All will be controlled by DSMLINK, it just works well.

Tuning aids are AEM Wideband, Greedy boost and EGT gauges w/TRE probe.

Oh well. Good luck

 

[rhamlinii]

Oh well. Good luck

My car was built for my wallet this time.

 

[DSMunknown]

GRNDSM has done 11.6s on the ol' 14b. Ask him for some tips & tricks.

 

[FonZ454]

Spray takes away from all the fun and technique, IMO atleast.

 

[J-speed99]

Good luck, and man that seems like alot of nitrous.

 

[bullettdsm]

No offense meant, but nitrous is a power adder. All of the set-ups that you talked about would have already been in the 11's (or better) if they sprayed. Right now Leon's 11.6 stands as the 14b record for stock engines afaik (though I think he did run cams?). But Phil, the numbers man, would be able to give you the lowdown on that.

Not knocking your quest, just clarifying some things.

Good luck,

MB

Oh yeah, unless you are running over 450whp, I believe the 2600 would be able to handle it.

 

[11secDSM]

Nate from DS used spray as well. But I agree...do what you can on boost alone...it's so much more impressive that way.

 

[11secDSM]

Right now Leon's 11.6 stands as the 14b record for stock engines afaik (though I think he did run cams?)

I could be very wrong, but wasn't Leon's motor built at that point in time?

 

[bullettdsm]

I could be very wrong, but wasn't Leon's motor built at that point in time?

Again, not positive.......I believe he had cams, but I'm sure Phil will jump in here at some point. He's got the freak memory thing that let's him remember EVERYTHING

MB

 

[SBstar]

Leon was running the built motor when he ran the 11.642 w/no nitrous.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54331
I hope you know that you're going to be highly contested for this record. Although most of the other builds are looking for the no-nitrous record.

 

[rhamlinii]

[

GRNDSM has done 11.6s on the ol' 14b. Ask him for some tips & tricks.

I've spoken to him before tru Pm's before and read all of his post. He was the reason why I got the venom smim over everything else. I just won't be using it with this setup.

Spray takes away from all the fun and technique, IMO atleast.

Yeah, but I'm looking for an 11.40 or better. You're not going to be able to do that with an 32 pound turbo.

Good luck, and man that seems like alot of nitrous.

Yes sir, and thanks.


QUOTE=bullettdsm;151303689]No offense meant, but nitrous is a power adder. All of the set-ups that you talked about would have already been in the 11's (or better) if they sprayed. Right now Leon's 11.6 stands as the 14b record for stock engines afaik (though I think he did run cams?). But Phil, the numbers man, would be able to give you the lowdown on that.

Not knocking your quest, just clarifying some things.

Good luck,

MB

Oh yeah, unless you are running over 450whp, I believe the 2600 would be able to handle it.[/QUOTE]

To clarify everything, i'm not taking anything away from what they've done. As it stands the fastest AWD 14b car has run 11.40s @118 on nitrous. Leon has the non-nitrous record of 11.6 @ 113 or soemthing. The current all-time record is 10.6 @131. I'll be lying if I wasn't going after the all time record too. You have to crawl before walk, so as of right now 11.30s is my goal.The only reason I built my motor was because I wanted to run nitrous. I know he had cams on his setup. It's the torgue that I don't think the clutch will be able to handle.

 

[oldman420]

I still stand firmly that babies use the bottle, but good luck. I'de actually really like to see a 14b make it into the 10's, that would open my eyes to the possibilities. OOhh the possibilities.

 

[rhamlinii]

I still stand firmly that babies use the bottle, but good luck. I'de actually really like to see a 14b make it into the 10's, that would open my eyes to the possibilities. OOhh the possibilities.

, thanks.

 

[99gst_racer]

Sounds fun.

I, too, am building a 14b track car right now. My goal is 10's for less than $3K total. Regardless if I reach my goal or not, this project is igniting that DSM "spark" that I once had. I'm having a blast building the car, and I haven't had this much fun with a car in years.

Good luck!

 

[Phil1320]

Here I am! What's up guys.....this is what I know:

For AWD, Leon = 11.64
For AWD with Nitrous, Nate 11.44

Leon= fully built motor ,no balance shafts etc., cams FMIC, etc.
Nate= 14b w/bolt-ons + FMIC + 130 shot of Nitrous, the car was a 12.4@109 car off the bottle. So, he gained one full second and 9mph trap speed from the squeeze.

The same set-up on Leon's car potentially makes a 10.6@125 pass.

I run 11.0@122 with that potential set-up.

So.....the nitrous thing is to each his own. I for one am not interested in doing it myself. But, I will sit back and watch if someone wants to try it.

My engine is box stock <original 80,500 miles.> I will run it as long as I can in that configuration. I have a balance shaft elim. kit and FP cams on the shelf to help achieve goals if need be. There is also about 100 lbs. left to remove before I will need to add more weight in sub 11.50 with cage.

I'm not sure what else to make of it. No offense to Nate at all, but 11.44 with such a big shot of NO2 pales in the light of a run like Leon's 11.64. Nobody get ticked off, THIS IS JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION.

Phil

 

[rhamlinii]

Here I am! What's up guys.....this is what I know:

For AWD, Leon = 11.64
For AWD with Nitrous, Nate 11.44

Leon= fully built motor ,no balance shafts etc., cams FMIC, etc.
Nate= 14b w/bolt-ons + FMIC + 130 shot of Nitrous, the car was a 12.4@109 car off the bottle. So, he gained one full second and 9mph trap speed from the squeeze.

The same set-up on Leon's car potentially makes a 10.6@125 pass.

I run 11.0@122 with that potential set-up.

So.....the nitrous thing is to each his own. I for one am not interested in doing it myself. But, I will sit back and watch if someone wants to try it.

My engine is box stock <original 80,500 miles.> I will run it as long as I can in that configuration. I have a balance shaft elim. kit and FP cams on the shelf to help achieve goals if need be. There is also about 100 lbs. left to remove before I will need to add more weight in sub 11.50 with cage.

I'm not sure what else to make of it. No offense to Nate at all, but 11.44 with such a big shot of NO2 pales in the light of a run like Leon's 11.64. Nobody get ticked off, THIS IS JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION.

Phil

I will read his previous post again, but I really thought Nate was on an 80 shot of spray with a great 60ft for that 11.44 pass. Leon is the man, I read is back post. I don't know how he was able to run so much timing with that small turbo, but he made power. As I said, I want to go after records. I'm not affended, nor should anyone be affended by what you may have said. Truth is, the record is 11.44. It wouldn't matter if it was done with a 250 shot. I am looking for times and records, not what cars should run. I don't mean any disrepect to you or anyone. Truth of the matter is every car is different, and no car is alike when it comes to any setup? If you put as much timing in you car as Leon, you may blow your motor. Same goes with spray, just like any power adder. There's no telling what any car may run, untill you try it. I'm just hoping we make our 11 second goals.

 

[T9S1i]

My buddy dave posted up his times here when he was on his 14b 11 sec quest.

He tuned his way to an 11.98 or so with a 14b, stock 450's, built motor (2.0) fuel pressure regulator, and 3" exhaust. Everything else was stock (besides mbc and open air filter). This guy is a DSM tuning mastermind! He tunes with an SAFC and burns his own chips.

Look it up ... his SN is Pneumo


Good luck on your quest, with all those mods i hope you can get it into the 11's if Dave did with a nearly stock car.

 

[DSMunknown]

^ I believe that's basically Dave's current setup.

 

[rhamlinii]

My buddy dave posted up his times here when he was on his 14b 11 sec quest.

He tuned his way to an 11.98 or so with a 14b, stock 450's, built motor (2.0) fuel pressure regulator, and 3" exhaust. Everything else was stock (besides mbc and open air filter). This guy is a DSM tuning mastermind! He tunes with an SAFC and burns his own chips.

Look it up ... his SN is Pneumo


Good luck on your quest, with all those mods i hope you can get it into the 11's if Dave did with a nearly stock car.

Yeah, i've read his post believe it or not. His car is nice, I believe it's a 35r car now.

 

[T9S1i]

Just a 35, non ball bearring. I think his current best is a 10.8 with that setup
He helped me tune my car to 12.9 at 15psi with my small 16g. It took me 8 runs to get that 12.9 i had to drive the snot outta the car! same car went 13.7 at 10psi! Man i love my new motor!


Anyways, good luck with the low 11's! I love watching people squeeze every bit of power that they can from a small turbo!

 

[rhamlinii]

Just a 35, non ball bearring. I think his current best is a 10.8 with that setup
He helped me tune my car to 12.9 at 15psi with my small 16g. It took me 8 runs to get that 12.9 i had to drive the snot outta the car! same car went 13.7 at 10psi! Man i love my new motor!


Anyways, good luck with the low 11's! I love watching people squeeze every bit of power that they can from a small turbo!

I'm having a slight change in plans. l had planned to run the 14B car this sunday at Maryland International Raceway. The Event in question would be Imports Vs. Domestics, and i've decided that the car will once again be on a 20G. I'm only doing it to be able to quailfy and run with the pack on sunday. Over the winter and into spring I will have the 14b on the car and ready for some times. I hope to have some dyno numbers on nitrous up, before X-mas.

 

[Phil1320]

I guess I'll chime in again here. First, let's not forget that Joe Bucci ran 10.84@126 in an FWD Laser on the 14b, then squeezed a tiny shot and ran 10.61@131 on that same 14b. We can also recognize that his car is a FULL on Drag Race car. Full lexan and a 1 gallon fuel cell are a testament to that. What I'm trying to establish is that a 14b powered DSM has run 10 second passes, with and without use of nitrous.

10.61 is the quickest 14b time ever to date. This is a lightweight FWD that can attain 60 ft. times of most AWD cars and then takes advantage of much less driveline lag than our AWD cars.

I guesstimate my cars weight at just under 2400lbs. This is still heavier than Joe B.'s total race weight with him in the car.

As far as DSMotorsport's 11.44, I was told by the source that it was a 130HP shot that made no more power than an 80 shot did, but, technically, that is what it was jetted for. With such a small turbo, this is easily believable. Not so with larger turbos.


If you are going for the top spot in the 14b world on the juice you have the two above cars to contend with and really only them. Unfortunately, yet fortunately, everyone's set-up is different. For instance, I know many fast 14b guys are running stock internals, but, are they stock ORIGINAL internals like mine? Most everyone has balance shafts removed for instance and mine are still intact. But, is everyone's car as light as mine? or lighter?

With so many variables, its hard to consider whats what. I recently retired my Talon from street duty, but, it is in nowhere the same "race" class as Joe B.'s car. While his car is worlds apart from mine....the numbers are the numbers, so, I guess, it just comes down to that....the quickest is the quickest. With that, I do belive that the two distinguishable things here in relation to 14b are:

AWD or FWD?

but more weighed upon...

NO NITROUS or NITROUS?

Those are my thoughts......what do you guys think?

For alltime 14b record you must be quicker than 10.61

For AWD alltime you need to be quicker than 11.44


Simple!


Phil

 

[TealTalon]

Good luck! I would think the 2600 would hold. The less your car weighs the less you'll stress things.

I am shooting for the number 2 14b record. DSMotorsport just upped the ante on me, and I think we're only going to make one more trip to the track and sell the car. Just .45 away from it. (Edit oops they used Nitrous still .25 off the #2 no nitrous record)

Beware if you use all that spray nobody will give you credit for anything. There will always be an asterisk next to your record, a yeah but...

I say go for it. Spray the hell out of it. Don't do it to impress others. Do what you want with your car.

 

[SBstar]

I'm going to see if I can get my 14b car out once this year and crack off at least a low 13 or 12...next year it's slicks and praying for 11's...I've got the weight out but there is a lot of tuning left to do.