4G64 hybrid into a Starion [Merged 9-7]

[ThePauser 88TSi]

Well, fellas... I've been reading alot of different forums for a few years and have a few questions for you.

I'm looking to build up a streetcar, and the g54b in my Starion is not looking to be the answer for me. For street wise anyway.

So, i'm looking for info about the 4g63/4g64 hybrid that's been discussed before. I'm still not absolutely positive on some things.

The main thing is the dreaded crankwalk, I don't know what it is but it sure does suck. Is there any difference between the 6 and 7 bolt 4g64? Because i've located a 7 bolt longblock 4g64 for a good price. I'm trying to skip some steps and get the DOHC 4g64, which i've already located. Now, I saw where someone on dsmtalk.com has said that his 7 bolt 4g64 hybrid had developed crankwalk. Can anyone clear this up. I'd register for dsmtalk but they won't let me right now, for some reason.

This hybrid 4G64T should drop in without major modifications. The 4G63 swap has been done before so, the 4g64 should work.

I'm probably going to use a Toyota W-58 Five speed from the older RWD Corolla's, or Celica's. I can't remember which.

Another bottleneck is that the intake manifold is facing the wrong way, and the water inlet is on the wrong side. So when it's in the Starion, the intake will face the firewall, and the water inlet tube is also facing the firewall. Now, i'm not to worried about the water line, but the intake manifold will need to be custom fabricated.

I'm trying to keep this short but I have sooo many question's.


John

 

[GRNDSM]

Why are you so hung up on 2.4? Especially if you are concerned with crankwalk?

My advise: this swap is complicated enough, why make it even more difficult? Get it to work with a garden variety 4g63t, if the power increase is not enough (which I doubt will be the case), then sell it and buy a 4g64, but I think that you will find that 4g63 has more than enough power and torque.

Keep in mind that all of the fastest DSMs are still using 2.0 motors?

One more thing to keep in mind, new 7bolt 4G64 motors from Galants and Spyders are probably not going to have RWD motor mount bolt features (they do not even have 1G motor mount features), so you will not be able to use them.

I know that there were several available 6 bolt motors in the 80?s (some RWD Mitsu?s/Colts and some Hyundai?). So you will probably have to start with one of those.

Another point, you could buy a ?wide? 4G63 block, which I am told is a direct bolt on to the Starion tranny. That is probably the #1 option.

Leon
RR

 

[Tallen]

yea there was at least 1 4g64 that develped CW that i have heard of. its kinda fishy thou. he claims it happened after 200 miles...thats absurd. i bet he screwed something up

 

[ThePauser 88TSi]

Well, i've been a part of SQC.com since it was created. As well as the older Ryddler's site. There's only a handful of people who have done it. Those that have are no longer part of the SQ's.
I was posting here because this is a DSM forum

I'm just looking for info about issues of crankwalk within the 4g64, specifically the 7 bolt unit. The guy who supposedly developed CW with his 7 bolt used stock internals. So, yea go figure. I guess he just wanted to find out how strong the stock bottom end was. I think he found out.

John

 

[ThePauser 88TSi]

Well, the whole idea is to retain 2.6 or more liters. The 2.4 can be stroked and/or bored to 2.6 fairly easy. With the "wide" block 4g63 or I should say G63B. The DOHC from the 4g63 will still have to be mated on. The Starion/Conquest came with the 4g63 in all other places except for the U.S. Only it was SOHC. The dual cam 4g63 is a direct drop in for the Starion, using Dodge D-50 motor mounts. Thus, the 4G64 hybrid will drop in without a fuss. Another thing is the Starion 5-speed, I don't really like it.
I'm going the way of the Toyota W-58, for availability, cost and buildability.( hehe Is that even a word?)

Also, what's this you wrote? Especially if i'm concerned with crankwalk.
Didn't the 4g63 have more incidences than the 4G64? Either way, the whole point is to have more torque than power. Right now, my car makes 260HP and 350TQ at the wheels. That's quite a torque difference with a four cylinder. Stock being 188hp/234tq. The 2.6 is a torque monster, and if I can successfully pull off a DOHC 2.6(stroked/bored 2.4)
it will be even better. Better in all aspects, fuel economy, rev's, plus it'll shave some weight off. Which is the whole idea behind the swap.

So, basically, i'm not hung up on the 2.4, it's the 2.6 I desire. If they would have built it right the first time.

I mean, come on... The G54B(2.6) came with a TBI for starters, add onto that the tiny 12a turbo with needle bearings, 7:1 compression ratio, the damn intake manifold is shit for distribution, the 2&3 cylinders get lean, giving all the desired fuel/air to the outer 1&4 cylinders. Not to mention SOHC, which is fine for a drag car. Sakura runs 7's, that's cool. I need a daily driver, that'll possibly run low 11's/high 10's.

There were two HKS Ralli-Art 2.6 race engines. These things kicked major ass. They were NA, DOHC destroked to 2.3 liters, 12:1 or higher compression ratio and netted 270RWHP.

The 2.4 gets my vote over the 2.0L because of spool up time.

John

 

[Streetbeat]

theres an aftermarket intake manifold that can face the other direction, i think it was on mach v ill try and find it and ill edit this post for ya


heres the link on mach v http://www.machv.com/casalshorrun.html

 

[maximage]

Stroking a 2.4 to a 2.6 is going to yield muchdifferent results than you realize. The 2.6 in your car(G54B) Has a toally different design. 1st, head design. 2nd, the stroke on the G54 is much different. So even if you do stroke the 4G64, it won't be the torque monster that the 2.6 is. Also, cam profile. The cam profile on the G54 is a lot different. My Suggestion, build the 4G63/4 as just that. SStroking is fine, but don't expect the torque numbers to be enormous like the G54. Personally, I would get a boost controller so you can get better boost at lower RPM's, and then you'll have some torque. Just my .02.

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

bottom line is that if ur concerned about crankwalk then u want a 6 bolt motor, to quote magnus all their 4g64 engines are 6 bolt strong, not 7 bolt weak, its that way for a reason, 6 bolt is better and stronger and has a much lower accourance of crankwalk
if ur going to do a swap like this u might as well do it the right way and use a good 6 bolt engine, weather it be a 4g63 or a 4g64, dont waste ur time and money stroking a 7 bolt, im supprised u actually found a 7 bolt 4g64, it wouldnt supprise me if its owner went to a nice 6 bolt set up
and if ur going to drive this around every day on an 11 second set up ur chances of crankwalking the engine are pretty high, i mean if this was a track car u were building that was only getting run for an hour or 2 per day a few days a month 7 bolt would be fine but why take the chance of walking the crank if ur going be driving this car around daily on a fast set up? go 6 bolt

 

[hose101772]

I am going to one in my flatbody after i get done with the 2.4 buildup in my talon.What I've taken through reading is that the 7 bolt 64 doesnt have C/W problems like some of the 2.0's.Other than the intake problem seems as easy to go 2.4 than anything else in a starion.BTW-2.4 has more torque than 2.6,way longer stroke.Dont bother stroking a 2.4,just use a 63 head and you'll be able to make big numbers.

 

[ThePauser 88TSi]

What tranny are you planning on using with the Star? I'm really torn, I know of a Toyota W-58 being used... But, I want a O/D Auto of some kind. Preferably a 727 or 904 torqueflite.

Hopefully the 5-speed argument won't come up again. My auto now can launch at 7PSI and lose no boost between shifts.


John

 

[GRNDSM]

So what tranny came in the 2.0 automatic Mighty Max trucks?


Leon
RR

 

[hose101772]

My flatbody is auto.Works ok with the mods i have on 2.6.I wouldnt bother but im getting so good at headgasket changes on 2.6-what a turd.Some of the vans came with 2.4 and autos,dont know if it will hold up but my last talon was auto and it held up well.Pretty sure i wont be going crazy with the 2.4 for starion,i will be running all dsm electronics-ecu-sensors, ect.Would just go 2.0 but since its all the same parts/money except block and crank with big gains in torque I'll go 2.4.

BTW whats wrong with starion 5spd?Never had a rwd mitsu with 5spd-had a 4spd in old d50,it was fine.Are 5spds troublesome?OH just reread your post you're wanting to use the narrow housing.i guess you need to find a narrow rwd tranny-no idea what that would have came in.Maybe grndsm has it,a 2.0-ok just looked this up-shows 1-83 thu 86 2.6 auto with 12.25 bellhousing in trucks.OUCH that will be a tuffy to find.good luck-let us know.

 

[nothing stock]

Well I've got a 4G64 7-bolt running strong, but more power can be made with a '63 stock block than mine. I topped out at 300whp on 91 octane. Others have made more on the lower compression 2.0L. My torque curve is pretty sweet though. I havn't taken it to the strip yet, but I'm guessing it's no better than a well tuned 16g 2.0L.

 

[Mr.Samples]

Looking for info on swaping a 6-bolt into a Starion. Tried search, but mostly got threads about Starion fmic

 

[Morphius]

Originally posted by Mr.Samples
Looking for info on swaping a 6-bolt into a Starion. Tried search, but mostly got threads about Starion fmic

I think you are on the wrong board, but these should help:

1. http://www.starquestclub.com/

2. http://www.tristarion.com/

3. http://www.geocities.com/piercedjd/4G63Conquest.html

4. http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=75890

5. http://www.starconquer.com/

6. http://www.starquestclub.com/index.pl?board=advancetech;action=display;num=1060954622

7. http://buschurforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=577

8. http://starion.turbomirage.com/index.html

Buschur Racing has kits to install the 4G63 in the starion with a GM powerglide behind it, but it is very costly. See the link above for contents. It's not directly posted on his site. Call and talk to him directly.

Or you could buy one of my adapters in 6 months when I prototype them...


Hope this helps.

-DaimlerChrysler Engineer

 

[Morphius]

Forgot this one.... these guys are top notch for engine swaps!! Large range of adapters available. (bellhousings,adapterplates, mounts, etc.) Naturally, most of it started with Aussie vehicles, but some of them share similar powerplants.

1.http://www.rodshop.com.au

-DaimlerChrysler Engineer

 

[Mr.Samples]

thanks, time for some reading

 

[Morphius]

Glad to help. I see I forgot to post the site I was referring to in my second post. It's been edited now!!

Good luck!!



-DaimlerChrysler Engineer

 

[GRNDSM]

Actually, there has been many discussions on this topic...

Thread moved.

Basically, you will need to ether:

1. Use an adapter plate.
2. Use Mighty Max transmission bell housing (requires complete transmission disassembly)
3. Use of “wide” 4G63 block, which was used on Automatic truck. This block will bolt up to a Starion tranny, but needs to be rebuild to tolerate boost.

In all cases, you can use Mighty Max motor mounts.

Then, there is an issue of fuel management, but that is not something that can addressed in a sigle post . Most people just modify Turbo DSM harness and use DSM ECU.

Leon
RR

 

[GRITZ]

Instead of modding the laser, i have decide to swap the 4g63 into my starion(SEE PROJECTZEROG.COM for info..great site) ...easy huh... The swap is not really that hard..but putting together a set-up for it is!!! I have been reading for weeks on this fourm trying to gather info for a set-up for the starion.....Traction shouldn't be that much of problem, the starion came with 9's in the rear...im running 18X9's in the rear!! if i need more i'll go with 10's......anyway my goal is a soild 400hp easy, meaning i don't want to buy cams or anything im a firm beliver in using stock cams, i don't really want to move the power band up any 7,500 is enuff the 2.6 would run out of steam @ 5000rpm ...this is what i would like to run, you let know how it would perform

*gt35r-or gt30
*680-720's
*Dsm link( how much $ to get this system up and running)
*pocket logger
*I already have a 255 pump on my starion

Remeber im not a complete noob, as i have rebuilt my 2.6, and did all my mods to that engine....Im just not to familar with the 4g63, other than it's a kick a** engine... going from 2.6 to 2.0 is a little nerve racking for me...thats why i need help chossing a set-up, i know what the 2.6 can do..it spools my FP18g fully by 3000rpm.....I understand that this is a 2.0 and it won't spool turbo as quick as the 2.6..but what im looking for is a fun street car that can toat the 3100+ lbs , and if i decide to go to the track make good times..(low 12's mid 12's)

 

[GRITZ]

Oh by the way, i would rather hear from someone who has seen or ran this set-up....or know from first hand what set-up that would reach my goals..the reason....My brother has a rx7 turbo2....he read on his forums that a 60-1 turbo(60 a/r cold 96 a/r hot) would be a lag monster on the 13bT...so any time this turbo choice would come up, this is what every one was use to hearing, so that is the advise that was givin...Some people would say it would be a little laggy, some people would say it would way to laggy....well he bought the turbo, and man that turbo kicks a** on the turbo2, sure it's more laggy than stock..but it's not that bad....first 3 gears tires up in smoke..@8psi!!!!

thanks

 

[xveganxcowboyx]

The only thing I can tell you is that I don't think you'll need DSMlink and a pocket logger. It's usually an either or thing with DSM link being a much more versatile set-up.

 

[GRITZ]

Well i would like to know what my engine is doing at all times...i wouldn't want to carry a laptop around everywhere.....Im not sure ye,t money is a issue also, so well see what happens...it would be cool if some one a make a handheld tunning device... like dsmlink, only hand held...

 

[GRITZ]

To add, im not much of a big boost lover either....All i see is over 20psi on everyones cars...man that seems like alot.....wouldn't running a higher compression, say 9:1 help.....or would that cause more problems? 20psi would be the max i would want to push i guess....i all depends on the turbo and my set-up i guess....

 

[TSIkw]

I got DSM link for my 1g with the socketing...cost is $595 plus shipping or $565 w/out socketing. If you are going to have the socketing done by them it was about $13 to ship the ECU via UPS. Also, it will depend on what kind of shape your ECU is in. Mine had a decent amount of acid damage and cost me another $88 to rebuild it. Then all you need it that laptop, which i'm not going to say the cost cause that all depends on what you want if you don't already have one.

http://www.dsm.link.com