Sounds like loud lifter tick and loss of power, please read...

[98autogstspyder]

Hello everyone, I drove my '92 talon tsi awd from Tallahassee to Ft. Lauderdale. Valvetrain-wise it is completely stock except for some arp head studs. Everything checked out okay before I left. I had driven about 180 miles before I noticed the problem....


I pulled up to a toll booth and heard a real loud ticking sound very familiar to the infamous lifter tick. However, it is about 3 times louder than normal lifter tick. I paid the toll and noticed my acceleration sucked ass. I didn't have a choice so I continued to drive it another 350 miles to my house and made it there. I had great oil pressure the entire trip and there was plenty of oil in the car when I checked at the house. I took off the oil cap while the motor was running and it was quite apparent the noise is coming from the head.


So my question is, what do you all think it is? Can everything in the head except the valves be replaced without pulling it?
-The car runs, and drives but ticks very loud and has a loss of power.


I am going to have it checked out on Monday and it will be checked for compression too.

-Tyler

 

[elfroggo]

You could be setting off the knock sensor with the loud ticking, thereby pulling a lot of timing. That would be one reason why you have a major loss in power.

 

[andymoraitis]

As mentioned, it's entirely possible that the knock sensor it's picking up excessive valvetrain noise since it's simply a microphone. If the noise happens at idle, it's possibly lifter related.

What you can do is:

1. Pull all four spark plugs to make it easier to manually turn the motor over
2. Remove the valve cover
3. Remove the driver's side wheel
4. Crank the motor over by hand so that the cam lobes aren't resting on the rocker arms.
5. Using finger pressure, press down on the rockers for each cylinder. If the rocker depresses with finger pressure, you have collapsed lifters and they need to be replaced.

It would also be very evident if a rocker arm fell off and was rattling around in the head. That can certainly trigger power loss and also trip the knock sensor. Just remember that you'll need to rotate the crank to more than one spot to check each cylinder completely. If you do need to replace your lifters, there's a good writeup here:

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/lifters.html

Try that and post back with your results.

Good luck. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed,

Andy

 

[dnhieu]

i think my phantom knock is comming from my lifters also. so if i pull my valve cover off and press down on a rocker and if it presses down i have a bad lifter? wont the valve spring have any resistance against that?

thanks
david

 

[98autogstspyder]

Thank you everyone for the help. I will let you all know tomorrow when I find out. Wish me luck.

 

[dnhieu]

good luck

 

[98autogstspyder]

Very strange is all I have to say...

I started the car this morning and it was making the same noise and the check engine light turned on. I let it warm up a bit and I drove it down the road and stopped at the first light. I could still hear the noise. A few miles later I noticed that the vehicle started to accelerate normally again and the CEL was no longer on. I revved it a bit at the next light and the noise was gone. I pulled up to the shop and explained the situation to the mechanic and he said that there really wasn't much that they could do because the noise was no longer there and to just bring it back if it did it again. He told me that it was possible that one of the lifters got clogged with some dirt or something and that it just finally filtered out.

I drove it back home and got on it pretty hard a few times and it felt like it did before this whole thing started. It isn't the first time this car has shrugged off a problem it had been having. I feel better now...

 

[andymoraitis]

It's pretty wierd that a problem would go away by itself, but if it does come back, I'd check the lifters as we recommended above. It's possible that it was something stupid like a bit of grit clogging things up. If you haven't changed the oil lately, I'd do so and maybe switch to a thicker grade for better pressure.

Keep us posted,

Andy

 

[TSIfreek]

i think my phantom knock is comming from my lifters also. so if i pull my valve cover off and press down on a rocker and if it presses down i have a bad lifter? wont the valve spring have any resistance against that?

thanks
david

The valve spring is on the other side of the lifter. With the valve spring uncompessed(valve closed) you can check the lifters.

 

[TSIfreek]

You can use this stuff to put in the oil to clean the lifters among other things. http://www.auto-rx.com/index.html

 

[andymoraitis]

You can use this stuff to put in the oil to clean the lifters among other things. http://www.auto-rx.com/index.html

Interesting read. Have you ever tried it?

 

[98autogstspyder]

I am very skeptical about adding things to the oil in these cars.

Back to the original topic... What weight oil should I change to to keep the lifters quieter and prevent something like that from happening again? I currently use Mobil one synthetic 10w 30 and change it every 3,000 miles or so. The car has 128,000 on her now.

Thanks you guys,

Tyler

 

[TSIfreek]

Mobil 1 is a light 30 wt oil. Maybe try a diffrent brand oil 10/30. Redline is a higher wt 30 but at 10 bucks a quart it gets expensive. About that auto RX additive I have read many people have used it with great results. I would use it if I had a high mileage motor without question. It contains no solvents just very high grade detergents.

 

[andymoraitis]

I personally use 15W-50 Mobil 1 synthetic and I highly recommend it. It's pricey, but it seems to do very well.

 

[TwoLiterLaser]

I have had the very same thing happen on a previous Laser of mine. Probably a small chunk of carbon or dirt keeping the lifter from fully expanding. If you have plans for making power in that car, invest in some brand new third gen revised lifters and have piece of mind.

 

[98autogstspyder]

The 3rd gen lifters I do know about. However, this motor is tired and I will most likely be getting a rebuilt motor from karking auto if I decide to keep this car.

15w 50 mobil one eh? Do you use that in the winter as well? I have a 98 gs-t as well with about 48,000 miles on it. Should I stick with 10w 30 there?


Thank you twoliterlaser for responding. That makes me feel better about my situation. I will be driving the car back on that long ass trip so I feel confident about it again.

Crazy lifters
Besides my last question about the oil thing, I guess this thread is finished then.

Thank you,
Tyler

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

I personally use 15W-50 Mobil 1 synthetic and I highly recommend it. It's pricey, but it seems to do very well.

I'm gonna guess that you have a SBR motor of somekind in your car without looking at your profile . As far as Auto RX and things of that nature go. They are ok but I have seen them ruin as many engine's as they help. Basically what they do it flush all of the material off the bearings and in the engine. Which will usually expose the bearing wear and you will notice a loss of oil pressure because clearance's are showing there wear.