Titanium retainers vs Steel retainers [Merged 9-9]

[ceedawg]

I was told by a few from another forum that titanium retainers should only be used on the track and not on a daily street driven car.

The reason being that they will get brittle and fail over time . Are steel retainers my best bet then?Anyone have a bad experience with titanium retainers on a dual purpose daily driven street /track DSM?

I do have FFWD Mad dual valve springs but I'm not sure what to do as far as retainers are concerned.

 

[Amazin' Wasian]

Titanium will be fine for daily driving, and there lighter than the steel ones which is a plus. I dont think the titaniums would fail, Titanium is some strong shit.

-nick

 

[ceedawg]

Titanium will be fine for daily driving, and there lighter than the steel ones which is a plus. I dont think the titaniums would fail, Titanium is some strong shit.

-nick

The ones I got with my Web dual valve spring kit failed!Cost me two valves + labor.

 

[GVR4592]

FFWD dual springs come with titanium retainers, did you buy yours from FFWD or a private party?.

As for reliability, I installed some springs and titanium retainers on a b16 engine for my friend over a year ago and he has had no problems. 1 year of this guys driving style is like 15 years of a normal person's driving style. He takes it up to 10k on almost every shift, and he has put a lot of miles it.

 

[ceedawg]

FFWD dual springs come with titanium retainers, did you buy yours from FFWD or a private party?.

As for reliability, I installed some springs and titanium retainers on a b16 engine for my friend over a year ago and he has had no problems. 1 year of this guys driving style is like 15 years of a normal person's driving style. He takes it up to 10k on almost every shift, and he has put a lot of miles it.

No I got the set from FFWD!

I'm just a little leary after my experience with the Web retainers.They(Web) did send me what they claim was an upgraded spring and retainer set up from kibble white no charge!I'm taking them out though but I'm debating whether I should go ahead and purchase stck retainers for the Ffwd springs vs using the ffwd titanium retainers I got with these.

I'm glad your friend has been having success with them.They have been known to fail on guys who use them in BMW M3's. Go figure! I'll post a link! http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5931035&posted=1#post5931035

 

[vintagemuscle]

can i use manley springs with the stock retainers? are there any advantages to the ti retainers other than being lighter. i am looking to upgrade valvesprings and just wondering if the stock retainers are fine rather than spending the extra $150. i plan on using ffwd 272's if that matters.

 

[coltboostin]

Light retainers more often than not will do more for you than a heavy spring. A Ti retainer removes ALOT of mass from the Valve assembly.

Your in N.O? Do I know you? Check your PM's

 

[project_tsi]

Generally a Titanium retainer is 2 to 3 times lighter then then the stock steel retainer. This leads to quicker revs, the ability to run higher R's, and being safer as they are stronger than the stock retainers.

 

[dsm-onster]

I run stock retainers on Manley springs from SBR just fine. Even with the extreme ramp rate of my FP2X cams and revving to 8500 rpms. No one has done this, from my recollection and research. But it is possible. I recommend spending the cash if you have the extra, for the insurance. Being so light, titanium retainers can really extend the life of your springs if you're hard on your setup. I will be going to FPs dual spring and retainer kit though if any problems crop up with my set up now.

So in short they arn't absolutely imperative to get but are a strong plus for extended life of your investment in time and money.

 

[coltboostin]

I will remind people to remember what Buschur and every else in the DSM scene was doing befor they made an aftermarket spring for the 4G63 head, and reving to 9k with no issues.....

 

[dsm-onster]

I will remind people to remember what Buschur and every else in the DSM scene was doing befor they made an aftermarket spring for the 4G63 head, and reving to 9k with no issues.....

Good point. Wasn't everyone shimming the stock springs very, very evenly? That's it, right? What did Buscher and Shep and others run for cam profiles? Would you say that they were more aggresive in ramp rate and/or lift than what manufacturers are putting out there now? Just really curious. As I have a set of stock springs with 10,000 miles on them just lying around. They've only been run with stock cams too. So they are far from wore out...

 

[coltboostin]

Good point. Wasn't everyone shimming the stock springs very, very evenly? That's it, right? What did Buscher and Shep and others run for cam profiles? Would you say that they were more aggresive in ramp rate and/or lift than what manufacturers are putting out there now? Just really curious. As I have a set of stock springs with 10,000 miles on them just lying around. They've only been run with stock cams too. So they are far from wore out...

Shims alone were good to 8.5k. Dave had some Aluminum retainers built and took his race motors two 9k all day. I can say on the ramp rates and cam profiles, but Im sure the custom stuff he was having ground was far from mild.

 

[dsm-onster]

Shims alone were good to 8.5k. Dave had some Aluminum retainers built and took his race motors two 9k all day. I can say on the ramp rates and cam profiles, but Im sure the custom stuff he was having ground was far from mild.

Yummy... so i nice set of titanium retainers and a even set of shims at the proper height, and the tranny will be hating life !

Thanx...

 

[coltboostin]

Yummy... so i nice set of titanium retainers and a even set of shims at the proper height, and the tranny will be hating life !

Thanx...

F the trans, it has to break some day.

 

[dsm-onster]

F the trans, it has to break some day.

HAHA! yea. Is it just me, or hasn't Shep come down in his tranny prices? $2200 for a stage 4 Shep tranny ( nothing else left but a dog box!!!). . . . .

 

[coltboostin]

thats why I am still FWD.

 

[4g63telantra]

When going with a new set of valve springs, should I replace the retainers with Titanium retainers or does not really matter?

What are some pro's on running a set of Titanium Retainers?

thanks

 

[treebonker]

To control the springs better in high rpm range you can either put heavy pressure springs or lightening your valvetrain. The later would be the better approach since it has less side effects but there isn't a whole lot you can do for the 4g63 to reduce weight except Ti-retainers. By going Ti you lose 7g/retainer. The gains are minimal and shouldnt be used to extend the springs limit but still good to have since it'll relieve some load off the springs.

 

[jpbrazill]

Using titanium retainers has every advantage, but no disadvantage. If you are upgrading to greater spring pressure, you should use stronger and lighter retainers. Like the poster above, I agree with the fact that you will not notice any performance gain, but you will have taken the steps in building your valvetrain to compensate for more load, higher rpm's, etc.

J.P.

 

[treebonker]

Using titanium retainers has every advantage, but no disadvantage.

Unfortunately it does have it's disadvantage. It isn't uncommon to see wear/thinning of the retainers. Some manufacturers have since moved on to the harder Ti-17 over the 6AL-4V and some even went further and nitride/coat their retainers(supertech,JUN...) to address this problem.

 

[Jon Lane]

Unfortunately it does have it's disadvantage. It isn't uncommon to see wear/thinning of the retainers. Some manufacturers have since moved on to the harder Ti-17 over the 6AL-4V and some even went further and nitride/coat their retainers(supertech,JUN...) to address this problem.

Do you know where Crower stands in that mix?

 

[treebonker]

We're stuck with the 6AL-4V while some of the honda gets Ti-17. Nothing strange considering you rarely if ever see someone from the dsm community complain about their Ti retainers. Whether the issue is there or not I wouldnt know. I atleast had no problem with crowers.

 

[jpbrazill]

I have never had any disadvantages with my SI's.

 

[coltboostin]

Unfortunately it does have it's disadvantage. It isn't uncommon to see wear/thinning of the retainers. Some manufacturers have since moved on to the harder Ti-17 over the 6AL-4V and some even went further and nitride/coat their retainers(supertech,JUN...) to address this problem.

If it is really an issue-find me one DSMer, street or race, that has had a Ti retainer of any make fail on them.

 

[jlado13]

How much life should I get out of titanium retainers for my valvetrain? I have OEM valves and manley springs. Cams are stock for now, but want to swap them out this summer. The reason I ask is because I was talking to a machine shop yesterday and the guy kind of advised against it if my car wasn't specifically a track car. He said the start to crack after a little bit. My car is a daily driver but will see the track from time to time.

I know they won't last AS long as a steel retainer, but just hoping they'll last for a decent amount of time..
Thanks.