RWD 4G63 Subframe mod?

[DSM's 4 life]

I am going to be swapping a big block into my talon and I have no clue how I am going to clear the steering rack. After looking through the forums for a few hours I saw someone mentioning relocating it to the front of the engine-bay. I have no clue how this is accomplished. I was curious to how people do RWD 4g63 swaps with the motor turned.

This is one link I found
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm-build-journals/293736-jake-hs-1g-rear-wheel-drive-build-6.html

 

[DSM's 4 life]

I found this picture just curious if people have gone different ways.

 

[gabytech]

You going to need custom knuckles, crossmember, and control arms to make up for the engine position as well as the steering rack position and suspension.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Check The All New Eagle Talon website. A 1G RWD 4G63 conversion, back when I was brainstorming my RWD 4G63 build I took a lot of ideas from Scott Glasbrook's RWD Talon.

My facebook build page https://www.facebook.com/gabrielruizracing if you want to follow my 4G63 RWD build so you can have a better idea.

Why not convert the 4G63 to RWD instead of swapping a big block domestic engine into a DSM ????

 

[DSM's 4 life]

I know I could get it to fit without modifying the strut towers. All I need to do is cut the front crossmember and weld bars above it to reconnect it giveing me more room to clear the transmision. The issue is steering

 

[gabytech]

I know I could get it to fit without modifying the strut towers. All I need to do is cut the front crossmember and weld bars above it to reconnect it giveing me more room to clear the transmision. The issue is steering

You definetly can use the stock struts, but you'll need custom knuckles and crossmember to move the steering up front.

 

[DSM's 4 life]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[gabytech]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

4G63 RWD that bi*** !!!!! Don't waste the DSM with a big block domestic engine. Might as well buy a Mustang...

Theres a few 4G63 already, and they are growing popular by the day. Converting a RWD 4G63 aint as hard as it used to be 5 years ago, there's already conversion parts that ease the 4G63 RWD swap. Motor mounts, auto trans motor plate, manual trans bellhousing, alternator relocation kit, cooling system relocation parts, intake manifold, etc...

 

[spooln4fun]

4G63 RWD that bi*** !!!!! Don't waste the DSM with a big block domestic engine. Might as well buy a Mustang...

End of thread!

 

[DSM's 4 life]

I already have the. Big block got it for 270
I'm selling my 6 bolt for 600 next Friday

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[gabytech]

You might already have the big block and selling your 6bolt for $600. Its going to cost way way more than $600 to convert the DSM to RWD, basically you going to spend around 10-15k dependind on the parts used and fabrication involved. Might as well buy a used muscle car and spend that money on modifying the hell out of it. Why RWD a DSM when you going to spend big buck in chassis fab to throw a domestic engine ???? Not hating, just don't understand why you want to kill a DSM that way..

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

The guy is not to be convinced. Check out his other thread. Accepting that good advice is not always what you want to hear can be tough, especially when it comes to the cost.

That is way too much motor for this little unibody chassis anyway.

 

[GPTourer]

That is way too much motor for this little unibody chassis anyway.

That's what I was thinking. If he makes any significant power, all that torque is going to make that unibody un happy and twist it in ways it was never designed. I know you can fab up all kinds of braces, but it seems like a guy who can tackle a project like this and make it work right doesn't start threads this way.

 

[gabytech]

Im building a RWD 4G63 and theres a lot of chassis fabrication involved that will bring the cost of the build real high... I can understand RWD the DSM with a 4G63, but to swap in a big block in a FWD/AWD chassis is just spending unnecessary money, when for cheaper you can buy an already RWD muscle car and just spend the budget elsewhere in engine mods...

I am going to be swapping a big block into my talon and I have no clue how I am going to clear the steering rack. After looking through the forums for a few hours I saw someone mentioning relocating it to the front of the engine-bay. I have no clue how this is accomplished. I was curious to how people do RWD 4g63 swaps with the motor turned.

This is one link I found
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm-build-journals/293736-jake-hs-1g-rear-wheel-drive-build-6.html

Advice, since you technically realistically don't know whats involved in the RWD build, I suggest you search around and find out what the other RWD DSM build cost have been. You might be thinking its going to be a budget build, when I can tell you ITS NOT GOING TO BE A BUDGET BUILD. Be prepare to spend 10-15k easy in just the chassis and rear end fabrication alone. Write it all down in paper whats going to be needed and its prices so you can have a good idea what the cost of the build realistically its going to be... The best advice I can give you, as Im also involved in doing a RWD DSM swap, eventhough I did an extensive research before starting the build I didn't realize it was going to be that expensive until the day I actually started the build...

 

[Jkorny169]

i am going to be swapping a big block into my talon....

awesome!!!!!!!!!

 

[DSM's 4 life]

Just so you know I don't like the idea of cutting up the cleanest 1g I have ever seen but I had if for sale for a few months for 3k I bought it for 2k and I'm parting it out as of now I have a really clean shell for 1k. I was looking for mustangs to swap the 7.5L into but couldn't find anything under 4 for a shell and wasent rusted to hell. Now before everyone throws crazy numbers around like 13k for this build your crazy. I have a roll cage,engine, and bellhousing all I need is a transmission and a custom driveshaft 800 for both so I'm think 5k budget easily...

 

[DSMnoobsause]

If you do all the fabrication possibly. Proper tubing is not cheap.

 

[gabytech]

Just so you know I don't like the idea of cutting up the cleanest 1g I have ever seen but I had if for sale for a few months for 3k I bought it for 2k and I'm parting it out as of now I have a really clean shell for 1k. I was looking for mustangs to swap the 7.5L into but couldn't find anything under 4 for a shell and wasent rusted to hell. Now before everyone throws crazy numbers around like 13k for this build your crazy. I have a roll cage,engine, and bellhousing all I need is a transmission and a custom driveshaft 800 for both so I'm think 5k budget easily...

GOOD LUCK WITH THE 5K BUDGET, CALL ME WHEN THE BUDGET SURPASS THE 5K MARK... Lets see, take your calculator out. The AWD DSM rear end WONT hold the RWD power, unless you want to break it every few months. A IRS or live axle assembly will range around 2.5-5k including the fabrication involved. Auto trans are cheap, so you can get away with a budget trans, manual trans aren't that cheap compared to auto trans, but still you can get way with a decent priced used trans, still add 500-1k for the trans keeping it budget. Depending on the hp you looking for the rear end and trans budget can double up quick. A custom driveshaft can range between $300-500, depending on the manufacturer. The firewall and trans tunnel need to be modified to fit the RWD trans, you can cut the firewall and trans tunnel yourself, but unless you got metal fabrication skills you going to have a fab shop fabricate the trans tunnel, add another $500 to the budget. The custom front suspension depending on the parts used and fab involved will chunk another 500-1k keeping it budget style.The motor mounts and fab involved to mount the engine/trans will chunk another $250. We still talking about the chassis work. The custom wiring harness add another $500, even using some of the OEM wring harness you still need to modified the hell out of it and will need new connectors, etc to fab the custom wiring harness. Then add all the other engine parts that need to be modified or relocated to fit the engine. Etc, etc, etc... Then you realize at the middle of the build that your budget will not be what you thought it would be, and to finish the build you'll need another 5k. That's how so many people start a build and end up selling a half build car cause they cant keep spending money they don't have or didn't thought they spent. Do your research before you take the wrench, and the best way to do it is to make a list of all the parts and fabrication involved that will be needed. If you don't have the fab skills, a shop will need to do the custom fab work, that's expensive labor. Its not the same to swap a big block engine in a small block muscle car, than to swap a big block into a DSM where a lot lot of fabrication and custom parts will quickly add up... Ultimately its your car and your build, but be warned its NOT going to be a 5k build like you think...

 

[DSM's 4 life]

GOOD LUCK WITH THE 5K BUDGET, CALL ME WHEN THE BUDGET SURPASS THE 5K MARK...

Challenge accepted

I think something like this for the steering knuckles with the steering rack in front of the engine.

 

[gabytech]

Challenge accepted

Like I said its, your car your build. But like you said at your initial post, you don't know how to bolt the steering rack, so that right there tells me you might not have fab skills. A fab guy, wouldn't be asking how to mount a steering rack up front. Get ready to spend that 5k in fab labor + an additional 2.5-5k (BUDGET STYLE) in parts... Dude, you ask, you are been told by the ones that aren't newbies and have done this before... My hobby aint cars, its how I earn my living and how I bring money to the table, Im a certified tech and have been modifying cars and race cars for 10+ years. Im telling you man, you going to end up spending double the 5k budget you think its going to take... Im NOT hating your project, just telling you its NOT a 5k project and for what it is you might be better off buying a used muscle car and not assassinate a DSM that way... Another point, you have the roll cage, that right there tells me you building a race car, be careful with cheap fabricators who don't specialized in race cars doing the fab for you. You want a race car thats design and fab with the proper suspension and rear end. You want to launch the car in a straight line, not all twisted like.

 

[bastarddsm]

The stock dsm rear is going to last about 2 seconds under big block torque.

 

[gabytech]

The stock dsm rear is going to last about 2 seconds under big block torque.

Exactly...

 

[4g63tc]

but a ford 8.8 out of a 90's thunderbird will, and can be had for 200.00 at any junkyard.

The LS1 swaps into Miata's are becoming more, and more mainstream. Look into how they are building the setup. It might have you thinking out of the box, and trying something new.

True it's already a RWD, but it was never meant to have an LS1, or ford engine swapped into it.

 

[gabytech]

but a ford 8.8 out of a 90's thunderbird will, and can be had for 200.00 at any junkyard.

Granted you could find a used cheap 8.8 rear end at the local junkyard. Its about shortening the rear end to the desired length, fabricating ladder bars or 4-link suspension, modifying the rear end to mount the suspension, etc. 1-2k in labor and parts to mount a 8.8 or 9 in rear end to the DSM. The fabrication involved in taking a FWD/AWD DSM chassis and converting it to RWD is expensive, the reason why most RWD 4G63 find a already RWD chassis and mount the 4G63 in. The budget required in fabricating a RWD DSM chassis AINT going to be a 5K budget build...

 

[96awd16g]

The 8.8 he was refering to is the irs center out of a v8 thunderturd.

 

[gabytech]

The 8.8 he was refering to is the irs center out of a v8 thunderturd.

Still going to need a custom fab rear subframe to bolt the v8 thunderbird 8.8 IRS diff and custom axles, and still probably wont hold his desired power. I know these aint cheap and obviously won't fit his budget, but Driveshaft Shop sells an 9in IRS kit. The bare 9in housing price tag is $1,699.99 and the kit is $4,999.99, these DSS kits are been used in most IRS drag cars.

We can dance around the subject all we want, Im trying to give him the best advice possible coming from someone who is actually doing a RWD DSM swap. Regardless of engine and parts choice the chassis fab required are extensive and expensive. It wont be a 5k build, no matter how you go around to it...

Another point, I understand you got a budget as so everyone else when building a race car, but most race cars that are build with a low budgets are constantly breaking and usually end up been more of a nightmare than an enjoyable fun race car. For the sake of arguments lets say you could be able to build it with 5k, cars that end up breaking every few races tend to end up been expensier in the long run vs a well fab race car from the get go no matter the budget. Build a race car that will handle the desired hp goal, which is the 1st thing you should ask yourself. A 600hp car build with oem suspension and driveline parts that wont handle the power will end up not only launching horribly but will also end up breaking parts every often... Rule of thumb, build a race car that its chassis, suspension, and driveline are up to the task of handling the desired power and abuse from the get go. In the long run you'll end up spending a lot more if you cut corners and end up been to tight with the low budget.. What I mean is you cant build a 600hp engine for a driveline that is built to handle 300hp or a suspension that isn't design and built to handle high hp...

Don't take my words the wrong way, just giving you the best possible advice. Cars and racing aren't my hobbies, they are my way of life 10+ years...