2G: sequential gear box?

[rocketrapson]

Just curious if anyone has pursued having a sequential gear box made. I am considering having one built to similar to a motorcycle gear box have my reverse gear back one and the rest of my gears forward.

[dsmdeliveryboy]

It is going to cost $10k plus for a sequential box, why not just run a auto with a shiftbox?
This company says with little modification these will work in a DSM
http://www.sqsracing.com/produkt/296...mitsubishi-evo

[rocketrapson]

An auto with a shift box would have lag id imagine. Ive driven a cts that has the sport shift in it and the response time from when I hit the shifter to gear up to when it actually shifted was very slow. Id rather pay a little more for something that I know will do what I want it to do, rather than take a chance on something I may end up being disappointed with

[ramsack]

Well, it's not going to be a little more, it's going to be A LOT more. An automatic is still going to be quicker and cheaper than anything you can do to these manual transmissions.

[tkelly27]

Comparing shifts in a Cadillac to full line pressure shifts in a DSM? lol

I think you should get the $10k sequential box (which is the only seqiential unit that might fit) so there are more autos out there for me to own. Make sure you get the $1,000 twin disk clutch too.

[bryanwheat]

Originally Posted by ramsack

Well, it's not going to be a little more, it's going to be A LOT more. An automatic is still going to be quicker and cheaper than anything you can do to these manual transmissions.

Agree'd, you are going to spend between 10k and 30k to have someone build you a custom transmission for one of these, if someone is even willing to give it a try. An auto will shift faster than a manual any day of the week.

[95twinturboawd]

Supercar Engineering

its for a 3s but gave him a call he might make it work for dsm

[rocketrapson]

Originally Posted by bryanwheat

Agree'd, you are going to spend between 10k and 30k to have someone build you a custom transmission for one of these, if someone is even willing to give it a try. An auto will shift faster than a manual any day of the week.

My gsx is an auto and I don't like it, it feels way too sluggish. My biggest issue with automatics is the lag, when I hit the throttle that car should go, not creep a bit and then take off. If there is a way to get rid of that lag in throttle response and use paddles or a sequential shifter with an auto trans (adding a couple of gears to I hope, 4 isnt enough) I'd be willing to give it a shot. I'm willing to shell out 30 grand for a custom sequential gearbox though, I'm used to the concept from growing up on motorcycles. I would disagree on the part where Autos shift faster than a manual, maybe that's true with the standard H style shifter, but not a sequential.

Originally Posted by 95twinturboawd

Supercar Engineering

its for a 3s but gave him a call he might make it work for dsm

That's pretty much the concept of what I'm thinking

[PotatoFlakeSTi]

Originally Posted by rocketrapson

I am considering having one built to similar to a motorcycle gear box have my reverse gear back one and the rest of my gears forward.

Not sure if you meant for this to be interpreted literally, but you want to shift up by pulling back, and shift down by pushing forward if you plan to do any racing.

What are your goals for this? Maybe a DogBox would suit you better?

[bryanwheat]

Originally Posted by rocketrapson

My gsx is an auto and I don't like it, it feels way too sluggish. My biggest issue with automatics is the lag, when I hit the throttle that car should go, not creep a bit and then take off. If there is a way to get rid of that lag in throttle response and use paddles or a sequential shifter with an auto trans (adding a couple of gears to I hope, 4 isnt enough) I'd be willing to give it a shot. I'm willing to shell out 30 grand for a custom sequential gearbox though, I'm used to the concept from growing up on motorcycles. I would disagree on the part where Autos shift faster than a manual, maybe that's true with the standard H style shifter, but not a sequential.

You are talking about a bone stock high mileage auto. There are many things that can be done to the transmission to improve it such as shift kits, higher stall converters, fully manual shift boxes, higher quality internals and so on. There will be no noticeable lag with a properly built and controlled auto transmission.

[rocketrapson]

Originally Posted by bryanwheat

You are talking about a bone stock high mileage auto. There are many things that can be done to the transmission to improve it such as shift kits, higher stall converters, fully manual shift boxes, higher quality internals and so on. There will be no noticeable lag with a properly built and controlled auto transmission.

I never realized all that could be done to an auto to make it better, I did find a site that sells a fully performance built auto transmission that I'm tempted to get. I just hate how I can't manually shift, and 4 gears just isnt enough, I've driven manuals all my life so this auto is foreign to me, so something similar to an Audi tiptronic system would be nice. Seeing these different options though definitely gives me some stuff to think about and research.

I've never heard of a dog box before now

[bryanwheat]

Originally Posted by rocketrapson

I never realized all that could be done to an auto to make it better, I did find a site that sells a fully performance built auto transmission that I'm tempted to get. I just hate how I can't manually shift, and 4 gears just isnt enough, I've driven manuals all my life so this auto is foreign to me, so something similar to an Audi tiptronic system would be nice. Seeing these different options though definitely gives me some stuff to think about and research.

I've never heard of a dog box before now

You most definitely can shift the auto manually with a shift box, or with a manual valve body and ratchet shifter.

[rocketrapson]

Originally Posted by PotatoFlakeSTi

Not sure if you meant for this to be interpreted literally, but you want to shift up by pulling back, and shift down by pushing forward if you plan to do any racing.

What are your goals for this? Maybe a DogBox would suit you better?

My goal is upwards of 600 horse, I'm building for a Daily/ I'm torn between a drag build or an autocross build. I think my gsx may better be suited for autocross or rallycross just because of the AWD. As far as the shifting i'm talking about pushing forward for up shift and pull back for down shift with the final gear pulling back would be reverse.

Originally Posted by bryanwheat

You most definitely can shift the auto manually with a shift box, or with a manual valve body and ratchet shifter.

I'm having trouble understanding how that ends up working, using an automatic with a shift box you are restricted to the 4 gears, or is it possible to add gears to an auto.

Can additional gears be added to an auto?

What is the difference between an auto with a shift box and a manual with a sequential?

What are the advantages of an auto with a shift box over a sequential manual?

What are the advantages of a dog box transmission?

As you can probably tell, I don't know a whole lot about the inner workings of transmissions. I just got to thinking about a standard transmission and how much of a hassle shifting is and thought about sequential gears like in a motorcycle, simple and quick shifting.

[BigKnick]

I personally think that a sequential would be BAD ASS and would love to see it, good luck either way you go!

[scotthidley]

If you're serious, check with RRE. They've done it before.

Pictures:
Index of /parts/sequential_shifter
Videos:
Index of /movies/sequential_shifter

If I recall correctly, it was a different shop making these and listing them for over $1300 back then (maybe 2005 or so).

Another shifter in a 2g:
DSM Eclipse G2 Ikeya shifter - YouTube

There's more information to find, even about sequential transmissions if you google a bit.

[rocketrapson]

I've done googling, an i can only really find about the operation

[ramsack]

Originally Posted by rocketrapson

Can additional gears be added to an auto?

What is the difference between an auto with a shift box and a manual with a sequential?

What are the advantages of an auto with a shift box over a sequential manual?

What are the advantages of a dog box transmission?

1. No, and it can't really be done to a manual, either (on a 5-speed you'd sacrifice reverse). You're left to make a new trans from scratch or adapt another transmission to the application.

2 & 3. Simplicity. There really aren't many moving parts in an automatic. They are hydraulically complex, but not mechanically complex. An automatic will always shift faster than any gearbox. Automatics usually have overlapping gear changes. Gearboxes that shift on their own are insanely complex. The term sequential itself means nothing more than the shift pattern. The insides of the transmissions are the same, but the gear selector is usually just a rotating cylinder with paths cut into it that still control forks on rails.

4. Power handling. No synchros.

[scotthidley]

Originally Posted by rocketrapson

I've done googling, an i can only really find about the operation

Try this:

Holinger HML

The HML gearbox was specifically designed and homologated by the FIA for Mitsubishi’s Group A Lancer EVO 3 rally cars. It was a 4-wheel-drive sequential 6-speed transmission, featuring adjustable front and centre differentials and an internal lubrication system.

They already exist, but are no longer produced. I don't want to guess what the prices were.

[Gus@RRE]

The holinger piece for the evo 3 is what you would want, of course i don't know many that would be willing to throw down 30k for a gearbox and shifter. That's more than 3x the cost of most average dsm's.

[AWD_Hybrid]

If you want a quick reving auto with short legs, I can build you a 1g to suit a 3.909 rear diff.
But 4th overdrive will be the same as 4th in a manual. Not so good on gas, but a quick 60 footer.
Cheers !