Catch can baffle. how do you baffle?

[Gamble97]

I've been researching this to death on sealed cans and just wondering, do you baffle a sealed can the same way as a vented can?
Post pics of how you did yours.

 

[Calan]

Depends on the design of the can and what type of filter (if any) it uses.

Plain baffles in a sealed can don't do a whole lot as far as oil separation goes; their main purpose is to prevent liquid that has collected in the can from splashing around and getting sucked from the outlet.

 

[____Kurt____]

I would like to fab up my own and have read that using stainless steel wool works good to help catch the oil vapors.

 

[____Kurt____]

Well I'm now in the middle of trying to baffle my can the best possible way. Any input would be very helpful.
The filters will be in the back and the inlets will be in the front top. I was leaning towards using SS wool in there. Any thoughts?

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[gophishy10]

Well I'm now in the middle of trying to baffle my can the best possible way. Any input would be very helpful.
The filters will be in the back and the inlets will be in the front top. I was leaning towards using SS wool in there. Any thoughts?

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Looks like a good design as long as it doesn't create too much of a pressure drop.

I went cheap on my catch cans for now. I got two ebay ones and filled them with stainless steel scrubbing pads from walmart. I have heard of the stainless steel wool breaking apart and I wouldn't want to risk that getting sucked back into the crankcase. The scrubbing pads definitely do something, because they have caught quite a bit of oil and other blowby crap.
The thing I don't know about is if I should have the pads packed into there or somewhat loose. Right now I have two pads in there and I could definitely squeeze another in but don't know if I should.

 

[T is for TURBO]

I would like to fab up my own and have read that using stainless steel wool works good to help catch the oil vapors.

It can, but it will corrode over time. And if you use it on a recirculated system, that means it could go threw your nice expensive turbo

The best way to get vapors out is with a coalescing filter. As for baffeling, I always had the idea of using finely perforated plate. Though that could cause a pressure drop.

Or you could just get a sweet Calan catch can

 

[Gamble97]

Discuss more about this pressure drop. Don't you want the pressure to be as close to 0 as possible, I thought?

 

[____Kurt____]

This is a vent to atmosphere so I am not concerned about sucking anything in, I just do not want to blow oil
Everywhere in the bay.

 

[T is for TURBO]

This is a vent to atmosphere so I am not concerned about sucking anything in, I just do not want to blow oil
Everywhere in the bay.

I know, I just wanted to point it out

Discuss more about this pressure drop. Don't you want the pressure to be as close to 0 as possible, I thought?

I think you might be misunderstanding what pressure drop is.

Pressure drop is the difference in pressure between two points in a pressure vessel. For an efficient flow of crank case pressure you want the can to be free flowing for maximum pressure evacuation. If there is to much in the way (i.e. baffling, filter media) you will start to build more pressure at the inlet (engine) side of the can than you will on the outlet (intake, or vented side). If this happens, you have an inefficiency.

Another example would be an intercooler. You want the turbo to flow as much as possible, but if you are pressurizing the inlet to 20 psi and you only have 19 on the outlet, you are experiencing pressure drop and you are making your turbo work harder than it needs to.

I hope this makes sense? I'm terrible at explaining things

 

[gophishy10]

Discuss more about this pressure drop. Don't you want the pressure to be as close to 0 as possible, I thought?

"The cans must not have a large pressure drop that limits the flow of air through them." - Taken from Calan's "The 4G63T PCV System" article.

You want airflow to be as restricted as possible through the can, but at the same time, grab as many microparticles as it can. So basically, you want the least pressure drop you can get while still filtering as many microparticles out of the air as you can. You may have to play around with the filtering until you get the correct amount of airflow you desire. It also depends on how much crankcase pressure you have. I know Calan recommends in his article that you measure crankcase pressure before designing your catch can. So really what you should so is measure crankcase pressure at the VC before your catch can and then measure it again after the catch can to determine how much of a pressure drop is occurring. (This is to the best of my knowledge). I've been doing a lot of research on catch cans lately.

Edit: Also, a larger can has the possibility of creating more of a pressure drop than a small can if I understand correctly.

This is a vent to atmosphere so I am not concerned about sucking anything in, I just do not want to blow oil
Everywhere in the bay.

Before I knew anything about catch cans, I used a vent to atmosphere can and it sprayed oil everywhere. I was told that our cars should never use vented catch cans and to always have a vacuum source, a.k.a. intake, to pull crankcase vapors through the can and filtering media.

However, I have heard of quite a few people using vented catch cans. What is your reasoning for using a vented catch can?

 

[T is for TURBO]

"The cans must not have a large pressure drop that limits the flow of air through them." - Taken from Calan's "The 4G63T PCV System" article.

You want airflow to be as NON-restrictive as possible through the can, but at the same time, grab as many microparticles as it can.

Fixed

Before I knew anything about catch cans, I used a vent to atmosphere can and it sprayed oil everywhere. I was told that our cars should never use vented catch cans and to always have a vacuum source, a.k.a. intake, to pull crankcase vapors through the can and filtering media.

However, I have heard of quite a few people using vented catch cans. What is your reasoning for using a vented catch can?

Many people HAVE to vent their can because they don't have in intake snorkel. They just have to make sure that their vents are sufficient enough to evacuate all of the pressure.

There are two main reasons why we should run it recirculated:

1. It helps draw the CC pressure out
2. If you have a stock MAF, that pressure is still metered air, just like why we don't vent our BOV

 

[____Kurt____]

I PM'd Calan a couple days ago with no response yet as to what his suggestions are so I'm still waiting to seal up the can. I'm trying to get my car running by next weekend so whatever advice I can get quickly I will use, I don't really have much time to waste on this unfortunately because I do want to do it good. I did weld up the drain plug and filter bungs so all I need to do is arrange baffles/media.

 

[DROPthatCLUTCH]

Looks like a good design as long as it doesn't create too much of a pressure drop.

I went cheap on my catch cans for now. I got two ebay ones and filled them with stainless steel scrubbing pads from walmart. I have heard of the stainless steel wool breaking apart and I wouldn't want to risk that getting sucked back into the crankcase. The scrubbing pads definitely do something, because they have caught quite a bit of oil and other blowby crap.
The thing I don't know about is if I should have the pads packed into there or somewhat loose. Right now I have two pads in there and I could definitely squeeze another in but don't know if I should.

This is what I did except I drilled and tapped a can for another vac. nipple and joined the cans together as one. And stay away from steel wool IMO that stuff can become brittle and break off. Get the SS scrubbing pads instead.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Dont know if this will help but I found this on the evo site, Made a Catch Can today - evolutionm.net

 

[____Kurt____]

Well had to finish the can so here it is tacked up.

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[Gamble97]

How did you do your baffles? Cuts look clean, what did you use to cut it?
Should have welded the fittings from the inside

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

How did you do your baffles? Cuts look clean, what did you use to cut it?
Should have welded the fittings from the inside

could not weld them from inside as the AN fittings are a flush fit type so he has to weld them on the outside, the other filter bits at the rear could be done though but people love to see the welds, especially if there nice welds

Well had to finish the can so here it is tacked up.

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as you might know clean up them welds before you weld it all up, and start before the tacks and go 1 way around the fittings as if you dont you will/might get small holes, and pressure/water air test it before use too, you dont want oil spitting out and not know where its coming from

 

[____Kurt____]

How did you do your baffles? Cuts look clean, what did you use to cut it?
Should have welded the fittings from the inside

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This is just a rough non accurate sketch of what is going on in there. I should of tool pics before I sealed her up. My father also said I should of welded everything from the inside but I like exposing welds as you know is an art all in itself.

could not weld them from inside as the AN fittings are a flush fit type so he has to weld them on the outside, the other filter bits at the rear could be done though but people love to see the welds, especially if there nice welds



as you might know clean up them welds before you weld it all up, and start before the tacks and go 1 way around the fittings as if you dont you will/might get small holes, and pressure/water air test it before use too, you dont want oil spitting out and not know where its coming from

Actually Welding the fittings from the inside would have been easier as you can just run a bead in a circle. Welding around the male part of the fitting is harder because you have to constantly reposition and try to make is look like one continuous bead. Yes prepping the joints is a given especially with aluminum because it "exaggerates" contamination. I will post pics when it's done.
This is what a bung should look like.

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[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

I did not know they went in at all, I just assumed they was flush on top of the plate so im sorry for assuming, I like the welds on the outside as you said your self its an art and not alot can weld ally good and plus you can say check my welds out

 

[T is for TURBO]

Looks good man!

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Discuss more about this pressure drop. Don't you want the pressure to be as close to 0 as possible, I thought?

Actually you want it to stay as far below zero as you can. Zero is good, vacuum is better. Reason why vented cans aren't good to use as they will never see vacuum.
Another spot that could be used as a vent(i was made aware by a friend.) Is the oil pump shaft inspection hole.
I was also told by my friend (15 year dsm'er) that a guy at FP(won't mention the name since its, second hand info) told him that its safe to use this as a drain for the cc oil. And that it acts as a vent when not draining.
I agree that it could be a useful vent and I have a design to use it as such. But I'm not too believing on using it as a drain to recirc cc oil. I don't like the idea of reusing cc oil. Especially if one were using e85. I don't believe that you can filter everything out of cc oil to be to be able to say its "clean and reusable". I'd prefer to just top off with new oil anything thats lost to a CC.

 

[Gamble97]

Actually you want it to stay as far below zero as you can. Zero is good, vacuum is better. Reason why vented cans aren't good to use as they will never see vacuum.
Another spot that could be used as a vent(i was made aware by a friend.) Is the oil pump shaft inspection hole.
I was also told by my friend (15 year dsm'er) that a guy at FP(won't mention the name since its, second hand info) told him that its safe to use this as a drain for the cc oil. And that it acts as a vent when not draining.
I agree that it could be a useful vent and I have a design to use it as such. But I'm not too believing on using it as a drain to recirc cc oil. I don't like the idea of reusing cc oil. Especially if one were using e85. I don't believe that you can filter everything out of cc oil to be to be able to say its "clean and reusable". I'd prefer to just top off with new oil anything thats lost to a CC.

Right, so because closer to 0 is closer to positive pressure, right?
I've always thought through an intake is the best way to do it, but lots of people like filters. Which is fine, but filters are more money.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Right, so because closer to 0 is closer to positive pressure, right?
I've always thought through an intake is the best way to do it, but lots of people like filters. Which is fine, but filters are more money.

Correct. Through intake is best way. The stronger vacuum you can get the better. No vacuum with a vented can. All you can do is hope your breather ports are large enough.

 

[Gamble97]

So what happens if your breather ports aren't large enough and you have more positive pressure. Just blow the dipstick?

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

So what happens if your breather ports aren't large enough and you have more positive pressure. Just blow the dipstick?

Blow a dipstick, oil seal or any seal related to cc pressure, and some cases cause turbo seals to leak oil.