Would buying a stand alone early be better then later?

[Hobbes =^.^=]

I am just wondering if it is better to buy a stand alone early instead of buying one down the road? Alot of people go the AFC, VPC, etc. route, and some eventually head for the stand alone. Wouldn't it actually save you more money rather then buying the piggy backs and such, and selling them later?

I by no means am going to get a stand alone anytime soon, I was just wondering why not go for them early, learn it... instead of eventually buying one down the road. Is it the actual know how on how to use one properly without blowing your engine the thing that is making people shy away from them. Or is the reason from not buying a stand alone is the cost $1,200+? Don't you end up paying about the same amount with all the other electronics you buy? You won't need a boost controller, gauges, AFC, logger, etc.

=^.^=

 

[nothing stock]

Yes, it would be financially sound to buy a standalone earlier and learn it.

But most people who haven't had the other tuning devices would be completely scared of a stand alone, and might never get the car to run right.

 

[mrmadmax]

Like mr Knight said, "just do it".
I've been working with Haltech standalone's for few years now, and the're not that bad. Just pay attention to the warnings, and use a wideband O2 with an A/F gauge to set low/med throttle, and an EGT when setting WOT to make sure you protect the turbo.

I've got a friend at AEM, and he tells me their EMS base maps are pretty close already (dyno tuned); all you really need to do is set high boost maps and do some trim work. Mine should get here in a few weeks; we'll see.

 

[BatmanGSX]

I don't see the big attraction to stand alones. I do but I don't. A 1G MAS and AFC have been deep into the 10s. I see a lot of guys with standalones running 12s or maybe 11s. An AFC cost $300, a logger is $150 and a modded MAS costs around $1.50 to make, a standalone costs a lot more and it's more of a pain in the ass.

Right now I have 850cc/min injectors, a special EPROM for my ECU that cost damn near nothing (don't ask where I got it, I won't say) and a 2G MAS. Combine this with a logger and I think I can go very fast without messing with a standalone at all.

I know a lot of guys are going to have this plug and play AEM thing soon but I'm guessing a lot of them will be a lot slower than I will be.

 

[Eclipsed]

Ha I will say just to help some bros out!
www.TMO.com
You may need to order a new ecu but its worth it. I suggest everyone check out this site!

 

[mrmadmax]

Originally posted by BatmanGSX
I don't see the big attraction to stand alones. I do but I don't. A 1G MAS and AFC have been deep into the 10s. I see a lot of guys with standalones running 12s or maybe 11s. An AFC cost $300, a logger is $150 ... ...I can go very fast without messing with a standalone at all.

...a lot of them will be a lot slower than I will be.

I agree with you, to a point.

For starters, Ignition. Do you know how the factory sets the spark advance curves on the stock ECU? Testing, Dyno runs, driving and logging in different conditions, etc (I've met the people that do this for a living at G.M.; sweet job). So, as soon as you throw in some cams, a different exhaust, all kinds of mods on your intake tract, different compression ratios, port work, etc; you completely change the required spark advance curve. How do you dial that in if not with a standalone? In that case, you have to mess with base timing to avoid knock at WOT and deal with retarded timing at cruise and at Idle.

Speed isn't the whole picture for me. I don't plan to ever get into the 10's, but that won't keep me from getting an AEM EMS as soon as I get the cash.

Another thing, Boost Control. Standalones offer boost contol solenoid outputs to handle that for you as well.

Internal Logging, Plug and Play, no boost cut, NO MAS, transmission controls (for automatics) etc. are some other features that are hard to pass up.

I guess they're not for everyone, but my experience with them has convinced me to never go back, even at twice the price.

 

[Prophet]

I understand the reasoning behind the stand alone vs. piggy back. It all depends on what you want to do and how much you want to spend. Like the gentelman before said, if you start changing internals then you start to get into the area where the stock ecu and piggyback can't go.

I do not own a dsm, but I own something similar. Right now, I am gathering funds for a stand alone. I am completely rebuilding my motor for lower compression and a turbo. I need a stand alone.

I will not be tuning my own motor. I will be learning, but at first I won't do it. The guy I am buying my Haltech from is going to be flown in for test and tuning. That is the best way to do it. Learn from someone who already knows how to do it.

My philosophy is simple. Do it right the first time. Piggyback systems simply fool the stock ecu. That is fine if you run stock internals. The guys that are running 10's with piggyback, well that is all fine and dandy, but I am sure those guys didn't do it on the butt dyno!

But then again, I could be full of sh*t and don't know what the hell I am talking about.

-Jeremy-

 

[RocketBoy]

I currently use the Proefi standalone (earlier version of EMS). Yes, the learning curve is steep and it may take a few weeks for your car to start/run/idle as it did before the install but in the end it will be worth it. It eliminates the MAS which can be the biggest restriction when it comes to making HUGE horsepower numbers and you no longer have to work around the ECU or try to figure out why it's doing what it is (pull timing,etc.). For a highly modified or soon to be highly modified car i think they're worth the money.

 

[DSMu4ia]

Originally posted by Eclipsed
Ha I will say just to help some bros out!
www.TMO.com
You may need to order a new ecu but its worth it. I suggest everyone check out this site!

You must be the only person in the USA that can get him to do any work....

 

[sunflashx]

Originally posted by BatmanGSX
I don't see the big attraction to stand alones. I do but I don't. A 1G MAS and AFC have been deep into the 10s. I see a lot of guys with standalones running 12s or maybe 11s. An AFC cost $300, a logger is $150 and a modded MAS costs around $1.50 to make, a standalone costs a lot more and it's more of a pain in the ass.

Right now I have 850cc/min injectors, a special EPROM for my ECU that cost damn near nothing (don't ask where I got it, I won't say) and a 2G MAS. Combine this with a logger and I think I can go very fast without messing with a standalone at all.

I know a lot of guys are going to have this plug and play AEM thing soon but I'm guessing a lot of them will be a lot slower than I will be.

SAFC = $300
Todds EPROM = $300
Logger = $150
Palm = $100
Boost controller = $10-$300 (Scratchbuilt MBC - EBC)

So you're looking at $860-$1150 add another $300 if you want a piggyback for timing and after all that you've got a setup that will never have the potential the standalone has.

The piggyback options are most likely easier to tune with, can be added a step at a time to minimize complexity.

The standalone both frightens and intrigues me. I can't decide if I want one or not. Properly tuned you should be able to return the car to stock like driveability. With a piggy back setup I don't believe the car will ever be quite the same. The stock ECU just wasn't meant to do everything we want it to.

Of course if someone who knew 1g's/SAFC's tuned my car for me they'd probably say "No goddamn wonder it didn't run right, I'd fire whoever you had tune it to these settings." Pitty me if I buy a EMS.