Bigger injectors for 16g?

[J92EGSX]

I was wondering if I need bigger injector to run 20 psi on my evo 16g, have fuel pump, regulator....stock sidemount too?

 

[GSX90]

Unless you run racegas, 20psi is pushing it. Some 550s or 660s would be nice for pump gas.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Originally posted by J92EGSX
I was wondering if I need bigger injector to run 20 psi on my evo 16g, have fuel pump, regulator....stock sidemount too?

I would like to know an answer to this myself. I've hit 20 psi on 93pump before... just for a minute... thanks to my wife's driving and my MBC being set too high. Scared the living schiznit outta me too!

 

[bigjangin]

I would definitely get some injectors. I would not run 20psi on pump gas with 450's. You'd probably be faster at 17psi anyways with all the knock you'd be getting trying to max out those injectors. Remember, having the parts are only part of the equation. Tuning takes a big role in making power.

 

[kpt4321]

Yes, you will need 660's most likely, especially with the stock SMIC.

I'm running a 14b and a SMIC, and I'm maxing out a set of 620's at 16-17 psi.

 

[J92EGSX]

so i should be fine at about 15 psi with the right tunning right?
thanks for the replys

 

[1fast97gsx]

17 psi is the max you want to go with your setup. Upgrade the injectors AND the intercooler and 20 psi wil be no problem. Even on pump gas. Go with 660s.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Originally posted by kpt4321
Yes, you will need 660's most likely, especially with the stock SMIC.

I'm running a 14b and a SMIC, and I'm maxing out a set of 620's at 16-17 psi.

I have a stock SMIC but a FMIC has been ordered. Lemme get this straight. If I have...
1. Walbro 190
2. FMIC
3. 620's or 660's
I can safely run around 18-20 psi? Damn I need to get a datalogger. Wont I also need fuel control for those big dogs?

 

[NewB2dsm]

You guys are all tools no offese.

550's are enough for a 16g size turbo, if you dont plan on upgrading down the road to a larger turbo stick with 550's they will even work with larger turbos just will be maxed out quicker than larger ones.

As for boost, it depends every car is different you need someway to monitor your car, be it egt's and or logger. I run 20psi on pump on my setup no problems at all.

I would get 550's and still not run more than 17psi since the stock IC will just heat soak causing knock. Get a supra sidemount or fmic to run more boost than 17-18psi daily.

 

[bigjangin]

if i had the extra money i WOULD get the 660's. I got an awesome deal on some 550's, otherwise I wouldve gotten 660's. Later on if I upgrade to a bigger turbo I will probably max out the 550's, and have to upgrade again :thumbdown

 

[Mike 99GSX]

Originally posted by NewB2dsm
You guys are all tools no offese.

OK I guess I'm a tool NewB2dsm, Do you have DSMlink on your car or have a way to see your duty cycles? How much timing adavnce are you getting on your logger when you run 20PSI on pump gas?
J92EGSX, You should get 660s if you want to run 19+ PSI on pump gas. 550s will barely cut it and since you haven't bought them yet, there's not much point to not getting the 660s. I've noticed duty cycles being higher on the 16g'd 1g cars that I have datalogged compared to the 2gs. Most likely because of the increased airflow with the 1g heads.

 

[NewB2dsm]

OK I guess I'm a tool NewB2dsm, Do you have DSMlink on your car or have a way to see your duty cycles? How much timing adavnce are you getting on your logger when you run 20PSI on pump gas?

i guess huh, i was getting 19 degrees at 7400rpm on the dyno before my fmic.

also i have a freind who made a 11.7@119mph pass on 550's with a full garret setup, i dont know exatly what he had but 550's are enough for most people granted the dunty cycles would be through the roof on a pass like that but 550's are a perfect match for a 16g or equivilent car. Also im almost taking out 20% of fuel on mine and still getting good timing so i dont think they are "maxed" out. Just my personal experiance.

And the tool coment was made b/c no one really awnsered his question everyone just jumped on the band wagon and said 660's or 620's blah blah blah. Anyway.. back on topic.

 

[Mike 99GSX]

Originally posted by NewB2dsm
i guess huh, i was getting 19 degrees at 7400rpm on the dyno before my fmic.

also i have a freind who made a 11.7@119mph pass on 550's with a full garret setup, i dont know exatly what he had but 550's are enough for most people granted the dunty cycles would be through the roof on a pass like that but 550's are a perfect match for a 16g or equivilent car. Also im almost taking out 20% of fuel on mine and still getting good timing so i dont think they are "maxed" out. Just my personal experiance.

And the tool coment was made b/c no one really awnsered his question everyone just jumped on the band wagon and said 660's or 620's blah blah blah. Anyway.. back on topic.

Again, there's a big difference between C16 and pump gas. Was your dyno run with race gas or pump? Was your friends 11.70 pass on pump gas? In a track situation, I would agree with you. But I will not advise anybody that its OK to run 20 PSI on a 16g with pump gas and 550s

 

[NewB2dsm]

sorry for the double post first

Originally posted by Mike 99GSX
Again, there's a big difference between C16 and pump gas. Was your dyno run with race gas or pump? Was your friends 11.70 pass on pump gas? In a track situation, I would agree with you. But I will not advise anybody that its OK to run 20 PSI on a 16g with pump gas and 550s

i was on pump gas for the dyno and i was leary of tuning the boost up that much on pump but the wideband said it was ok, my timing said ok and my egts so why not? also have several freinds around here running larger setups runing that kind of boost on pump maybe we are just lucky though?. freind at the track was on race gas and you are right big difference i just put that in there to show that it was possible for 550's to do that even though they were almost positivly being overworked.

 

[Mike 99GSX]

Originally posted by NewB2dsm
sorry for the double post first



i was on pump gas for the dyno and i was leary of tuning the boost up that much on pump but the wideband said it was ok, my timing said ok and my egts so why not? also have several freinds around here running larger setups runing that kind of boost on pump maybe we are just lucky though?. freind at the track was on race gas and you are right big difference i just put that in there to show that it was possible for 550's to do that even though they were almost positivly being overworked.

Everything you posted is correct and great. However, you are one of the rare persons that paid attention to detail, hooked up a wideband, logger, and went to the dyno. If the wideband read say 11.5 flat, you had 19 degrees timing at the top of 3rd, then you're right, why not. The average Joe here though is going to slap a turbo on, not invest in a logger or dyno time, and crank the boost up on pump gas. If 660s cost twice as much as 550s then I would say hey, you can make 550s work if you pay attention to detail and log carefully. Since the price of FIC 650s cost about the same as RC550s now, I think its a no brainer. Good points though

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by NewB2dsm You guys are all tools no offese.

I won't even touch this. You're about to get owned.

550's are enough for a 16g size turbo, if you dont plan on upgrading down the road to a larger turbo stick with 550's they will even work with larger turbos just will be maxed out quicker than larger ones.

Really now...

I'm running RC 550's and higher than stock base fuel pressure (47 psi). That means that, in addition to the extra fuel given to me by the 550's, I am also getting about 12% more fuel due to the extra fuel pressure. Or, to put it simply, I'm running what are equivalent to 620 cc/min injectors.

I'm also running a 14b and the stock SMIC.

Want to know what my injector duty cycles are at 16 psi on pump gas? 92%, dirtrag.

Sounds like they might not be "big enough" for me now, let alone with a larger turbo or more boost.

As for boost, it depends every car is different you need someway to monitor your car, be it egt's and or logger. I run 20psi on pump on my setup no problems at all.

Hello, and welcome to the limit.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Originally posted by kpt4321
I won't even touch this. You're about to get owned.





Want to know what my injector duty cycles are at 16 psi on pump gas? 92%, dirtrag.

Sounds like they might not be "big enough" for me now, let alone with a larger turbo or more boost.



Hello, and welcome to the limit.

:laugh: Your posts crack me up! F**K IT! Im going with the 660's.

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by RiceKiller_TSi
:laugh: Your posts crack me up!

It's good to see that at least one person knows not to freak out and start Hitler-ing when I joke around.

 

[NewB2dsm]

Originally posted by kpt4321

I'm running RC 550's and higher than stock base fuel pressure (47 psi). That means that, in addition to the extra fuel given to me by the 550's, I am also getting about 12% more fuel due to the extra fuel pressure. Or, to put it simply, I'm running what are equivalent to 620 cc/min injectors.

I'm also running a 14b and the stock SMIC.

Want to know what my injector duty cycles are at 16 psi on pump gas? 92%, dirtrag.

Sounds like they might not be "big enough" for me now, let alone with a larger turbo or more boost.


Hello, and welcome to the limit. [/B]

Hello and welcome to being dumb as stated above. No way you are maxing out 550's on a 14b with the bfp pumped up. What are your intake temps there guy? I bet that stock smic has somthing to do with it you think?

But like stated most people wont take the nesecicary(sp) steps to tune a care and make it run correct at sertain boost and just through stuff together and expect it to work since some guy on the internet told them it would. Thats why i said every car is different and you need somthing to log with to make sure what people say is correct. My comment to you guys who say you cant run 20psi on pump gas on 550's, i think you are lazy. I got my 550s cheap from a freind. i probably would have gone with 650's or somthign like that but 550's work and work well. The problems you are going to have with larger injectors than needed, is tuning them for a smaller turbo that is not flowing enough air to make tuning more easy. im done "own" me if you like....

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Side note: Road Race "actually" does recommend 550's for up to 20-21 on 93-94 pump. I am looking to tune for running between 24-26psi in the near future... that said 660's here I come. Depends on the goals of the individual.
Middle of the page--> http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclfuel.htm

 

[turbotalon92]

Originally posted by J92EGSX
I was wondering if I need bigger injector to run 20 psi on my evo 16g, have fuel pump, regulator....stock sidemount too?

To answer your question, you don't need bigger injectors.

As for 20psi, that is just a matter of race gas. That will prevent knock, and let you run the higher boost. If you want to run around on pump gas at 20 psi, you need bigger intercooler, turbo and injectors.

I personally ran 12.8 on race gas with nothing but big 16g, fuel pump and an AFC....22psi.

Even with my 480 whp set-up, I only ran 18 psi on the street. anything higher causes knock.

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by NewB2dsm
Hello and welcome to being dumb as stated above. No way you are maxing out 550's on a 14b with the bfp pumped up. What are your intake temps there guy? I bet that stock smic has somthing to do with it you think?

You picked the wrong issue to pick a fight with me over.

There's no way I am maxing out my injectors? Want me to go out and take a datalog for you right now? I mean, I took a few yesterday, but I can go out and take another one today.

Injector duty cycles were over 90% for all of the WOT region. I can get them over 100%, if I try to richen it up past 10:1. 11:1 or so seems to work pretty well, and keeps them off 100%, so I am staying there for now.

My intake temps were something I didn't log, but they were around 40 degrees, considering ambient is about 20-30 degrees right now.

Charge temps are in the 150*F region.

But like stated most people wont take the nesecicary(sp) steps to tune a care and make it run correct at sertain boost and just through stuff together and expect it to work since some guy on the internet told them it would.

You're right, my car is just stuffed together. It really runs like shit. I suck at tuning.

Last season it ran 108 mph on a 14b, SMIC and 450's, at full weight. STFU, clownshoes.

Know some of the tuning buide that are floating around here? I wrote them.

Thats why i said every car is different and you need somthing to log with to make sure what people say is correct.

Yup. My PocketLOGGER and MMcD say that my injector duty cycle is more then 90%.

My comment to you guys who say you cant run 20psi on pump gas on 550's, i think you are lazy.

You're right, because my car knocks at 19 psi, I must be lazy. If I worked harder, it would run better. Mostly because it would respect me for my extra work, and would therefore try to reimburse me. WHAT THE ####?

I have more datalogs of that, if you want to see that. With HUGE fuel enrichment, I could get the knock to go away, but that dropped timing and was too rich. The car actually picked up some power by dropping the boost and taking out fuel, and adding timing.

is tuning them for a smaller turbo that is not flowing enough air to make tuning more easy

Yeah, Engrish?

Can we get a translator in here?

im done "own" me if you like....

Your wish is my command.

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by turbotalon92

Even with my 480 whp set-up, I only ran 18 psi on the street. anything higher causes knock.

Well, according to captain nancy-pants above me, that makes you lazy.

Guy is a moron.

 

[NewB2dsm]

Originally posted by kpt4321
Well, according to captain nancy-pants above me, that makes you lazy.

Guy is a moron.

.. yes it does. You take things far to seriously and expect everyones elses car to do what yours is doing.

First off if you are maxing out your 550's with a 14b then good job. Also riching it up to 10:1 or 11:1 umm thats leaning it out guy. Ever looked at a wide band? i think you have b/c it sounds like you know what you are doing but if you say riching it up to that point that is taking away fuel making it LEAN, but hey your the expert right? Anyway i put my car on a dyno went from 18-20psi my car right now on the wideband is right around 10.5:1 and was getting 19 degrees at 7400rpm in 3rd on the dyno BEFORE my fmic. and egts were right at 1550. Also stock fuel pressure.

I dont know what you want me to say besides i think you should get a fmic and see what your timing and knock does at the same psi.. that is all.

also my "giberish" was ment if you have say 660's and trying to tune with a afc for a 16g its going to be harder to tune than say 550's. B/c with the 660's you are going to have to take out more fuel and your idle could be affected. these can be sloved pretty easy just more time tuning and just time in general. But for the "average" person its more of a hassel. I have nothing wrong with going with bigger injectors but if a 16g is all he wants then 550's are plunty. Even the RRE site says that, i guess you can email them and tell them that their page is wrong.

 

[turbotalon92]

We're not lazy, it just makes more power at lower bost levels. I can run 22psi on pump gas if I want, but it won't be fast!

Unless you are one of the few pump gas kings, then 20 psi isn't reasonable.