ams says that the gm maft setup sucks

[eclipsegsx9797]

was up guys im sure we all did our research on the gm maft set up and have heard good and bad things about it. ams a well know dsm shop in chicago ( www.automotosports.com ) says that the gm maft setup is a waste of money and waste of time tring to tune the thing. now i do trust ams sense there making over 500hp on a stock 2g mas and a afc control (on 2g car). also there are many shops saying how good the maft set up is. what is your guys opinion on this.

p.s. i think the maft is good if u have to vent and if your not tunning with it ( leaving at 000 and tune with your afc and dsmlink)

 

[90AWDTalon]

Well I can't speak from experience on a 2g, but on a 1g the MAFT is a great mod. It's tuning capabilities aren't as much as some other tunning devices, but it is adaquate for most people. I was able to tune with it until I got my 680's and needed to start messing around with timing, previous to the 680's I was running 60psi through my stock injector's, this was the equivilent to 575cc injector. I now use an emanage, an SAFC <bold>would not</bold> have been any better in this case than the MAFT. But the best reason for this mod is the much better flow no matter how much power your making. You don't need to max out your stock MAF to get a gain from the GM MAF, much freer flowing than stock.

 

[98TsiAWD]

IMO you should NOT be tuning with the maf translator.
The only reason I think anyone should upgrade to a gm maf setup is to get better boost response and get rid of a restriction, and vent to the atmosphere is just a bonus.
Most say that a 2g mas can be overrun at ~400-425whp, overrunning a mas can mean bye bye motor, can cause a very lean condition.

 

[STARION]

Whatever, I tune with my MAFT. It works perfectly fine (and my datalogs can back me up on that). I'm not going to spend extra money on an AFC when it's totally unnecessary.

 

[kilurv8]

Originally posted by 98TsiAWD
IMO you should NOT be tuning with the maf translator.
The only reason I think anyone should upgrade to a gm maf setup is to get better boost response and get rid of a restriction, and vent to the atmosphere is just a bonus.
Most say that a 2g mas can be overrun at ~400-425whp, overrunning a mas can mean bye bye motor, can cause a very lean condition.

And welcome to my situation. Last year I over ran my stock unhacked 2G mas air and melted 2 pistons (Logs in dsmlink verify it). I am doing a MAFT to overcome the limit of the 2G MAS.

I have spoken to martin about the MAFT several times. His reviews are mixed. I agree in that I dont think the MAFT is enough to tune. It will get you close and probably good enough for most people. I am basically hooking it up and going to use DSMlink to do my tuning (after i calibrate the MAS).

If you ask me, it works well and many people have used it to great success. It is just like any other aftermarket part, it takes time and effort to get it right.

 

[eclipsegsx9797]

ya, thanks for the info that is what i think kilurv8, i am getting it and leaving it un tuned, and using either my afc that i have now or im going to tune with my dsmlink that i mite get. all of ams complants are about tunning it.

 

[AMS]

Please don't take this the wrong way but I never said the MAFT sucks or it doesn't work. My guys know the results we had on the dyno and I told them how it performed and the features of it. I've never heard them say it sucks, but they know that it doesn't do the things that some people said it would do. I will explain my stance on this and give you some results of what we found.

First of all Mike Licht is a great guy and we worked together on this and I want to thank him for supplying me with a unit to test. Before I elaborate on how we tested, I want to tell you that coming from an engineering background I do my testing with utmost regard for accuracy and repeatability. I keep all variables constant to extract data that is representative of the product being tested.

The test car was a 93 talon with the following mods:

stock motor and head
Forrester racing heads intake manifold
HKS 272/272 cams
Ported 2G exh. manifold
bolt-on PTE mitsu/garret turbo (small trim)
3" o2 housing and 3" exhaust (with test pipe)
Spearco 2-221 core with 2.5" diameter piping
680cc/min injectors
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
S-AFC
1G slightly hacked MAS with Dejon intake pipe

The only item changed was the installation of the MAFT and a new intake pipe to fit the MAFT to the turbo. Runs where done with the car at full operating temperature, with a 3-4 minute wait between runs and the IC was ambient temperature at the beginning of each run. There where about 3-4 baseline runs for each session to make sure we where getting good repeatability.

The Results:

With the 1G hacked MAF we made 362whp. With the MAFT we made 368whp. Gains started at 5600rpm and peaked at 7400rpm with a 6whp gain. Spool-up time was exactly the same on both setup. These results where made with a tuned A/F ratio of 12.0:1 on both setups. Now that we have the hard data I'll give you my opnion.

I saw numerous people post that it decreased spool-up by 500rpm and that they felt big gains on their but-dyno. When tuned correctly on both setups, I do not see these as realistic results. What I think was happening was that the cars where not in good tune (A/F ratio) before installation. The MAFT is a good thing for people who do not have access to a wide-band o2 or do not feel comfortable tuning an S-AFC themselves. The MAFT has basic setting for different sized injectors which brings the tune pretty close to optimum A/F, unlike a S-AFC which most guess at the settings for bigger injectors (especially if you hack your MAS or install a 2G MAS on a 1G car). So in this aspect I think the MAFT is a good thing in that it already has preset fuel trims which will let your car run at correct A/F ratio's with larger injectors. I say this because most of the cars we street tune with S-AFC are pretty far off when we first get it. Sometimes too lean but most of the time they are way rich, 10:1. For the person who has their A/F ratio's hurting their power or spool-up, the MAFT will definetly help power and spool-up. When customers come in I recommend a good street-tune with a wideband over the MAFT, because in the end you are getting the same performance for less money. I tell them what we've found and I'm very honest about, I don't bash it or put it down.

So to break it down, if you have access to a wideband o2 or you know how to read plugs, monitor EGT's and are knowledgable on tuning, I'd recommend you stay with your 2G MAS (or upgrade to one if you have a 1G) and use a S-AFC. If you don't want to mess with stuff, don't feel comfortable tuning A/F's, or just want it simplified, get the MAFT. I hope this helped and cleared up a few issues. I'm very honest with everything I do and I would never cover up test results or inflate claims. If something doesn't work well I investigate why and learn from this. I test every product I make and if doesn't make hp or work well, I don't sell it. I've tested products from other companies that lose horsepower or don't work, and I think it's important that I share this information because it educates the consumer and improves the industry. There are plenty of snake-oil salesmen out there that would sell you anything just to make a buck, and it's hard sometimes to differntiate good product from bad without testing it. Again, I'm not saying the MAFT is a bad product, but just sharing my personal views about other vendors/manufacturers of performance products.

Regards,

Martin Musial

 

[eclipsegsx9797]

hey martin i never ment to say you guys put it down i ment that you said it was proven, as for tunning i have you guys tune my car , and reason im going with the maft is im using a tial bov and i have to vent so im running the maft setup blow thru style and im not tunning with the maft either. i wll have you guys tune with my dsmlink if i get it or my afc that i have now. do you have any comments about it if you have it blow thru style and leave it at 000 thanks jim