Stroking 4G64 to for 2.7L

[4G64 WHORE]

I'm sure this question has been asked way too many times before.
Can a 4G64 - dropped into a DSM - be stroked to 2.7L and be able to handle as much boost/WHP as a 2.0L 4G63 or 2.4L 4G64?

I have spent months researching stroking the 4G64 to 2.7L while using a big FP3065 turbo. I believe that this combo will provide EARLY spool up and HUGE power(2.7L is 35% bigger than the 2.0L). I am looking to build not a race car - but a seriously powerfull daily driver for the short summers up here in NY. I know that the 2.0L can be stroked to 2.3L and can handle serious boost, but does anyone have experience/knowledge of a stroked 4G64 combined with high boost such as 30PSI+? I am not looking to have to rev my car over 8KRPM to make serious power.

Obviously I have a number of supporting mods in mind to go with this setup - upgraded tranny, head, axles, clutch, suspension, etc.

I see how my buddies 3.0L Supra makes 500WHP+ with his T78 turbo on pump gas. Now I know that Supra = Gawd, but a 2.7L DSM + huge turbo cant be too far off. My main goal is a 500WHP DSM that has enough early spool-up to make it somewhat daily driveable. Going 2.7L seems the way to go for that goal.

I know I sound like just another dumbass with high hopes for his car - but believe me, I am more dedicated to making this happen than you can imagine. Any advice/help you can provide for me is greatly appreciated.

Ideas? Opinions? Flames? All are expected, as I am a newbie to posting in this forum (although I've been lurking around for a year now)

Thanks,

Art Reynolds

 

[4G64 WHORE]

Damn! My first post/topic and I Funk up the the Topic!!!! That is what you get for drinking more Liters of beer than a stock Honda Civic engine......

 

[dsmturboawd]

I've read of people doing 2.6, not 2.7. Not saying its not possible, just saying what others have done.

If you want 500whp, it can be done on a stock 6 bolt motor. There's a thread somewhere about someone running 30psi from a Red on a stock 6 bolt and getting like 492whp i think.

So 2.whatver isnt needed.

 

[Groomz]

More displacement is always better, so I would think that the 2.7 liter option would be pretty cool. I have seen a few ( Smithoid 600+whp ) dyno videos on just 2 liters, so 2.7 may overshoot your goal a bit. But it does mean tons of torque.

 

[Kingdom]

were can you get a crank for something like this?

and do you have to overbore to get 2.7?

 

[4G64 WHORE]

I know that a 2.0L block is more than capable to produce 500WHP when tuned and built right. What I am looking is for the same kind of WHP, only with alot more torque down low. I am tainted by my modded 1.8T's stock turbo that spools up at 2000RPM but falls flat on its face at 6000RPM

anything less than the 4G64's 2.4L is out of the question.

Anyone wanna take a guess as to what RPM the FP3065 would begin to spool up at on a 2.6L ot 2.7L DSM? I've seen a guy's untuned dyno with an FP3055 and a 2.4L and he made 411WHP before/at 4000RPM. THAT is what I am looking for!

Anyone have any knowledge of stroked 2.4L's?

 

[ph3r3d]

there is a local 1g that has over 500hp proven, and his dad also has well over 500 on 2.0Ls..

if you want the links i'll post em.

as for the 2.7 being able to handle big boost.. i dont see why i wouldnt be able to? MAYBEE cause the block would be weaker... because of the overboreing?

And on a side note.. there was a 420a Block bored to a 2.8L

 

[4G64 WHORE]

I am well aware of thousands of 2.0L DSM's that make over 500WHP. The only problem is that they are not daily driver friendly, and they are not 500WHP on Pump 93 octane.

I am looking for a larger engine that will spool up a large turbo (FP3065) and give me good power WELL before 5000RPM. ALL of these 2.0L 500WHP cars dont spool up their turbo until around 4500 - 5000RPM. Again - this will be a daily driver from May - October, so ti has to be reliable,

I guess the main reason why I fear going 2.7L is whether or not the walls of the block have to be majorly bored? That is somethign that I do not want. I was under the impression that the pistons/rods could be basically swapped out for larger displacement.

Does anyone have any good links to sites that have anything to do with stroking a 4G64? I cant find a damn thing about it. I am trying to figure out what shop to go to to build me a BUILT 2.7L, ceramic coated, etc block. I am sure that Magnus could do it for me - but they are serious $$$$ even for their 2.4L ($4K). I am looking for a truly proffesional shop that can build a 2.7L that is built to last. I am willing to submit as much as $5K to the motor if I can be sure that it will be as reliable as possible for 500WHP - 600WHP.

 

[bigfoot]

If you want much more than 2.4 you will have to use a different block. The 2.4 is basically the same block as the 2.0, just a little taller. So it can't be bored or stroked much more. There was a company called Powder Blast Co. or something that was advertising 2.6 or 2.7 motors, but I think they died and left people empty handed. I think they were swapping the DOHC head, timing belt and front cover onto the G54B, or so they said. Here is a Conquest guy swapping a HKS DOHC head to the 2.6 block. Sounds to me like he is using it to make castings, maybe for sale? http://www.nyccdsm.com/forums/viewthread.php?tid=4756&page=1

I know of a 2.0 making 460 or so WHP on pump, I'll bet a built 2.4 could meet your goal easily. Hell the 2.0 could do it with a 50 shot.

 

[4G64 WHORE]

I have read several times about 2.4L 4G64's being stroked to 2.7L. I know that it is slightly taller, but doesnt the 2.4L also have thicker sidewalls? I was under the assumption that it did and that stroking it to 2.7L was not much different than going 2.3L from a 4G63.

I'm not looking to use nitrous to get to 500WHP on pump gas. I know that the 2.0 can probly make 500WHP with some crazy tuning, but how daily driveable would that be? I want serious torque well before 4000RPM and a 500WHP minimum on pump gas. In this case, there is no replacement for displacement.

 

[Blizz92tsi]

A 2.7 4G64? The idea has crossed my mind several times. I however don't have the funds to chase such a dream. I'm sure you could get really close to your 2.7 goal. What I was planning on doing was getting every last bit of info, specs, and possibly a 2.4 block and spending some serious time planning with a very accomplished engine builder. You'll need to find out how much you can overbore without making the walls too thin for your boost plans, and then find out how much more stroke you could get without over doing it. To obtain the stroke or displacement you want however you might need a custom crank. Can we say $$$! Instead of spending time asking about it on the forums I'd be searching for the right engine builder. I think your goals are possible but will take lots and lots of planning and dollars. My goal with a 2.4 or larger engine in my DSM wasn't exactly a huge horsepower figure or wanting to be able to run a semi-truck's turbo but to not have to rev the engine any higher than the transmission likes shifting. Good luck! I'd be very interested in what you find out.

 

[thedsmsource]

As a guy who is assembling a 2.4L engine, i would have the say that the 2.4 is going to be allot diffrent then the stock 2.0L. Now information on a 2.4l engine assembly is quite limited, and sparce so finding info on the 2.7 is going to be harder. But after talking to a guy a while back, the 2.7l is possible but almost unnessary. Even on my engine i am going to have custom camshafts made because of the diffrent size of the engine, tuning is all diffrent in some aspects,etc. etc. And unfortunately, some of the fastest dsm's out are runnign the 2.0, for magnus to have so many resources, there cars aren't running as fast as i feel they should being that they have 20% more engine. Just some food for thought.

 

[TRBOTSI]

Have you ever even driven a 2.4 dsm? If you want a larger displacement 500whp pump gas motor get a V8...

 

[4G64 WHORE]

Blizz92tsi - My goal, like yours is to not have to rev the engine very high to make some serious power. That is why I pursue an engine that is much larger than 2.0L.

thedsmsource - I agree that finding information on the 2.4L is almost impossible - not to mention stroking the engine! Of coruse 2.0L DSM's are running faster than 2.4L+ DSM's - they have got 10 years of tuning on them!

TRBOTSI - No, I have not ever driven a 2.4L DSM. I havent ever even a 2.0L DSM! I bought my 93 Talon AWD with a blown motor and many mods for $1500 8 months ago. It has sit in my garage ever since because I havent had time to work on it. I graduate from college with a BA in Telecom. in 20 days (Dec. 8th), so after that, I'll have plenty of time to work on it and hopefully quite the job to afford everything!
I did not buy a V-8 because I do not want to be another Camaro/Mustang driver. Besides, after 500WHP, RWD does not provide enough traction to be a good street car. I like my DSM because it is light, has AWD so it can have GOOD traction for the street, has many parts out on the aftermarket to soup it up to ying yang, and can be a sleeper as well.

 

[gritsak]

Originally posted by 4G64 WHORE
I did not buy a V-8 because I do not want to be another Camaro/Mustang driver. Besides, after 500WHP, RWD does not provide enough traction to be a good street car. I like my DSM because it is light, has AWD so it can have GOOD traction for the street

dsm....light? you must have some special edition

and wait till you try and put 2.7l of quick torque down to an awd dsm drivetrain...hope your ready to break stuff.

 

[sidoze]

the 4g64 isnt a proven motor yet, neither would a stroked 4g64 be.

a guy in maryland had a stock 2g motor, cams, sheet metal intake, indy race core, and the SBR GT11 and he put down 480 at the wheels.

spool up was at 3,500.

the 1g rods and some 8.5 or 9:1 pistons would probably make you more than happy.

and for your volkswagen that spooled up at 2000, that was what a 160hp car that much power that early in the RPM band would be such a drivetrain killer.......the thought is making me cringe..and to think im wanting a bigger turbo because it spools to fast.

if u want mid 2,000 spool get a magnus 2.4 with 8.5 or 9:1 and a gt11. if someone else can make 480 on the gt11 with a 2.0 u can make ur magic 500 with at the rpm range u want with the 2.4

 

[4G64 WHORE]

gritsak- yes, a DSM is light for the amount of power that it can easily put down. a Camaro/Mustang weighs 400lbs+ more than a 3000LB AWD 1G Talon. i know that the torque of a huge 2.7L motor can be killer on a drivetrain. That is why I plan to seriously upgrade almost every single aspect of my drivetrain to accomodate.

sidoze - There was a time when the 4G63 was not proven, and back in the early 90's people were saying the same stuff about the 4G63 as you are the 4G64 now.
Also, a STOCK 1.8T dyno's at 165WHP My Jetta 1.8T is modded to 200WHP+ right now on the stock turbo and yep, turbo spools up at 2000RPM. My mods on my 1.8T are: chip, Intake, Exhaust, LSD, Stg3 clutch, 6lb flywheel, pullies, suspension, wheels/tires, etc. My first 1/4 run at the track up in the Adirondacks got me a 14.3 (car should be in the 13's with a non-dumbass driver ). I'll probly be purchasing a 300WHP+ turbo kit soon for my Jetta. Dont underestimate a 1.8T VW. I know of some serious 400WHP ones. My buddy with a simple APR Stage 3 upgrade is killing many cars that you would not expect - new Mustang Cobra, a new Vette (and he had 3 people in his car!), countless Camaro's, Evo's, etc. He dynoed at 323WHP with his GT28 with around 18psi.

Back on topic, I was doing some research on 2.4L DSM's and I read about a few peoples feedback on them. They said that the spool-up was incredable and it made the car much more streetable because of the early boost. I'll post links tommorrow.

 

[sidoze]

haha dude...i was saying it was 160hp because all my friends that got them took there mods off because the ECU was hard to deal with. Ive been told theres a lot to do to support the power right on one.

 

[4G64 WHORE]

sidoze - the VW ECU definatelly sucks ballz - and that is just part of the problem with 1.8T's and part of the reason why I bought a DSM!. My 1.8T throws codes all of the time because of my 3" exhaust, aftermarket intake, etc. DSM's are soooo much easier to tune yourself. You cannot tune a 1.8T yourself without getting a standalone and just throwing away the stock computer system. This is why you do not see many high HP 1.8T's. They have the potential, but the stock ECU has just gotta go. Also, the stock tranny is made of bubble gum! I have already had to replace all of my gears and I am now going to have to go to a 3rd clutch! I cannot shift fast or my gears will grind, the VW FWD axles blow too - I broke them as well! Also broke my motor mounts! All in all, I've probly spent close to $8G fixing my 2001 Jetta 1.8T.

Launching a 1.8T is also a bi***. The axles are not of equal length, and even with my LSD and AVS Sports 235's, i still cannot gain any traction in 1st gear and spin 2nd as well with a measly 200WHP. Of course, having 250lb/ft+ of torque before 3000RPM isnt helping.

1.8T Ecu = :thumbdown
DSM + AEM EMS I just bought =

 

[bigfoot]

I looked around a bit and found a couple of people talking about the offset ground crankshaft, custom rods and pistons, and bigger bore to get the 2.7. Although nobody has one running that I know of. I understand where you are coming from, a 2.7 wouldn't be too much more trouble to build since your starting from scratch anyway. But 450whp is just a about as fast as you can go without breaking all the time. I remember someone saying that any faster is "Breaking Shit Fast".

Consider this, a 2.4 with a DNPerformance equal length header and a FP 3052 would probably hit full spool around 3000, and it would meet your HP goal. Now those GT BB turbos start boost early so you would be well into the boost at 2000. You would have to be careful with the gas or you would be in the boost almost all the time.

One more thing, fast spool time is somewhat overrated. After all, you have a gear shift lever beside your right hand. And rpms is how we make up for only having 4 cylinders. Good luck to ya whatever you do.

 

[gixrman]

Ok, well this topic went from a 2.6-2.7 4g64 to how my jetta 1.8t ECU sucks. If you do the standard .20 over bore on a 4g64 what does it bring it up to? .30 over? And stroking it with what? different rods? Crank? And offset grinding to what? Is there clearence for this in the block?

 

[4G64 WHORE]

bigfoot - good advice. I have thought about the 3052 turbo and a 2.4L before. Odds are, I'll end up going that route if it turns out that 2.7L isnt safe for high boost because of grinding the crank, boring, etc. Does anyone know of any reputable shops that could do this? Magnus comes to mind because they have a GREAT repuatation for quality, but there 2.4L motor is $$4200...... I cant even imagine having them custom make me a 2.7L - probly around $8000.

Another reason why I would like to go with a 2.7L is because if I opt to put on a huge turbo that didnt spool up until say 4500 - 5000RPM on it, the motor by itself would make enough power to drive around town without boost.

Perhaps I bought the wrong car. I see 700WHP Supra's as daily drivers on the stock block. I know that I am going to have to upgrade almost every aspect of the car so that it does not break everytime I go into boost. But does any of this sound possible?

 

[Blizz92tsi]

Magnus' prices might be in Canadian Dollars. If so this might make the 2.4 they sell more reasonable to you. I'd personally try to accomplish your goal with a 2.4 swap. I've owned a pretty fast DSM that was just a 2.0 and adding another 0.4 liters to the mix will be more than enough. Then if the 2.4 isn't cutting it or god forbid you toast it trying to run 30+ psi on the street you could always look into rebuilding it into your 2.7 "big-block" monster! Good luck!