Gm Mas Vs Safc?

[SportinWood]

People who have these please tell me the limit of the GM and if it's really worth it compaired to the Apexi SAFC..... Pro's/Con's ect.
THANKS!

 

[DSMSpyder99]

there not meant for the same thing:

People buy a GM MAS to supply your engine with more air mostly because a stand-alone is too expensive or they have to much power for the 2G MAS to handle

People buy a S-AFC to fine tune there air/fuel ratio.

 

[98eclipseRS]

^^^^yes that is true but you can tune with the gm mas/t. As for pushing enough air to overrun the gm mas, don't count on it. It can flow way more than enough for almost any set up. Next you can use both at the same time. Just tune globally with the translator and then fine tune with the afc. It also depends on what your goals are and what you want out of the car.

 

[Wobble]

SAFC wins hands down, the MAFT flows more air.. but untill youve got a SUPER huge turbo that isnt gonna be a factor.. the SAFC lets you tune from in-car, have finer tuning, playback and all that good stuff..

with the maft you have to get out.. take off the cover, turn a screw or 2.. get back in.. try again.. etc etc..

and a MAFT is about 300 for the maft and the translator so price is similar between the 2...


but my money is on the SAFC.. its just better all around as far as tuning goes..

 

[jott5555]

Yes but with a gm maft set up u can also vent to the atmosphere wiht no problems on a 1g or 2g, personally im goin maft then sfac later on.

 

[98eclipseRS]

Originally posted by Wobble
SAFC wins hands down, the MAFT flows more air.. but untill youve got a SUPER huge turbo that isnt gonna be a factor.. the SAFC lets you tune from in-car, have finer tuning, playback and all that good stuff..

with the maft you have to get out.. take off the cover, turn a screw or 2.. get back in.. try again.. etc etc..

and a MAFT is about 300 for the maft and the translator so price is similar between the 2...


but my money is on the SAFC.. its just better all around as far as tuning goes..

obviously you have never seen anyone mount the translator box in the car. nOt only that but with the reduced restriction that the gm mas has it reduces turbo lag regardless if you have it in a draw through or blow through. Price is a ilttle much but use the trader I just bought a translator new gm maf(from the dealer) and dejon tool blowthrough uicp(also brand new) for 400 shipped 2day from across the us. I am in no way knocking the safc it is a great tunning tool and it will be the next thing I buy but the translator is more than worth the money IMO. Is is also easier to get your idle under control when using largert injectors with the maf/t. And as said above you can vent to the atmosphere which means you can run a higher quality bov without any side effects.

 

[newports01]

the gm maf and translator will also allow you to disable fuel cut right?

 

[98eclipseRS]

Originally posted by newports01
the gm maf and translator will also allow you to disable fuel cut right?

yes.

 

[nine5raptor]

Originally posted by Wobble
SAFC wins hands down, the MAFT flows more air.. but untill youve got a SUPER huge turbo that isnt gonna be a factor.. the SAFC lets you tune from in-car, have finer tuning, playback and all that good stuff..

with the maft you have to get out.. take off the cover, turn a screw or 2.. get back in.. try again.. etc etc..

and a MAFT is about 300 for the maft and the translator so price is similar between the 2...


but my money is on the SAFC.. its just better all around as far as tuning goes..

I tune in car and spent $200 for the maft and $60 for a maf. Everything else came from existing parts.

 

[SportinWood]

Ah, I see....
So the MAF will work with larger injectors ect?
I noticed the blow by and that caught my eye. It also looks like it takes up close to no room at all in the engine bay.
So the AFC is more for fine tuning but the MAF will allow more air in?
If you combine the two it would be cheaper than a stand alone huh?
Thanks for the input guys!

 

[allwheelTSI]

Originally posted by 98eclipseRS


yes.

no.

 

[98eclipseRS]

Originally posted by allwheelTSI



no.

why do you say NO. It has the function to disable fuel cut.

 

[allwheelTSI]

Originally posted by 98eclipseRS


why do you say NO. It has the function to disable fuel cut.

are you sure about that? i'm not saying you are wrong,but as far as i know all it did was adjust mixture..

 

[98eclipseRS]

no im sure there is switch on it that allows you to stop fuel cut. Is it the safest thing to do probably not but it doesn allow you to do it. It also allows you to set the injector size you have so that you have to do less tunning with it.

 

[allwheelTSI]

well.. unless they came out with a new version like yesterday.. i know that is incorrect. the only piece you can set injector size on is a DSMlink.
and if you don't know for sure about the fuel cut thing,i do.
i think you misunderstood something. you get fuel cut when the computer senses too much air,it reads air in 'hz' what the MAFT does is allows you to lower this signal to compensate for bigger injectors and to help not to hit fuel cut,it does not eliminate it,because fuel cut is a function of the ECU and the MAFT dose'nt alter the ECU,only what the ECU reads.

 

[98eclipseRS]

Originally posted by allwheelTSI
well.. unless they came out with a new version like yesterday.. i know that is incorrect. the only piece you can set injector size on is a DSMlink.
and if you don't know for sure about the fuel cut thing,i do.
i think you misunderstood something. you get fuel cut when the computer senses too much air,it reads air in 'hz' what the MAFT does is allows you to lower this signal to compensate for bigger injectors and to help not to hit fuel cut,it does not eliminate it,because fuel cut is a function of the ECU and the MAFT dose'nt alter the ECU,only what the ECU reads.

bro, I really don't feel like getting in an argument with you about this and hijacking this guys thread. I have done my research on this seeing that i bought one I wanted to know what I was getting before I spent the money on it. It has a switch to eliminate fuel cut. Second it DOES have a knob that allows you to set your injector size. if you have the knob at zero it accomodates for 450's(which are stock), you can turn the knob to accomodate larger injectos such as 550's, 660's etc... very easy to do just turn the knob. It also has a low throttle knob, mid throttle knob, and wot knob to allow you to lean or richen the fuel mixture for those settings. Do a search on the gm mas translator there is like a 100 something page thread that will anser every and all question that you have about it(or in your case doubts).

 

[nine5raptor]

Originally posted by allwheelTSI
well.. unless they came out with a new version like yesterday.. i know that is incorrect. the only piece you can set injector size on is a DSMlink.
and if you don't know for sure about the fuel cut thing,i do.
i think you misunderstood something. you get fuel cut when the computer senses too much air,it reads air in 'hz' what the MAFT does is allows you to lower this signal to compensate for bigger injectors and to help not to hit fuel cut,it does not eliminate it,because fuel cut is a function of the ECU and the MAFT dose'nt alter the ECU,only what the ECU reads.

it has a switch on it to eliminate fuel cut (it effectively caps your airflow signal, so the ecu will never see high enough flow to cut fuel).

 

[nine5raptor]

both of you are posting correct answers, but due to the vagueness of those answers, you don't realize it.

 

[allwheelTSI]

good enough. i was'nt trying to start an arguement or make anyone wrong or anything,just stating what i know about how it worked,and i very well could be misinformed,and apparently i am.. about the fuel cut thing anyway. i read up on it a bit,and never read anything about that,good to know.
but,just for reference here.. it dose'nt have setting for different injectors,correct? i mean.. sure adjusting it up and down will compensate,but theres no set index,right?

 

[nine5raptor]

It is a percentage adjustment. The manual comes with settings that are close to what you would want for a given injector (with the top one being like 1250 cc/min if you have an extreme setup).

 

[allwheelTSI]

Originally posted by nine5raptor
It is a percentage adjustment. The manual comes with settings that are close to what you would want for a given injector (with the top one being like 1250 cc/min if you have an extreme setup).

wow,thats amazing.. i had no idea you could go that high on the stock ECU...

 

[Wobble]

Originally posted by 98eclipseRS


obviously you have never seen anyone mount the translator box in the car. nOt only that but with the reduced restriction that the gm mas has it reduces turbo lag regardless if you have it in a draw through or blow through. Price is a ilttle much but use the trader I just bought a translator new gm maf(from the dealer) and dejon tool blowthrough uicp(also brand new) for 400 shipped 2day from across the us. I am in no way knocking the safc it is a great tunning tool and it will be the next thing I buy but the translator is more than worth the money IMO. Is is also easier to get your idle under control when using largert injectors with the maf/t. And as said above you can vent to the atmosphere which means you can run a higher quality bov without any side effects.

My friend has the GM maf, and no you cant vent to the atmosphere with it UNLESS you get the blowthrough setup which requires quite a bit more cost..

and reduce lag? maby if you have a GIANT turbo where the stock maf is a restriction.. otherwise.. no difference..

higher quality BOV? a Greddy Type S or Type R isnt high quality enough? even HKS makes a recirculatable BOV.. HKS is cheap?

as for idle, well my friend never got a good idle with it with 550s, but it turned out one of the injectors had a little leak so maby that was it..

but the bottom line is the maft tunes in increments of 5% where as the AFC tunes in 1% and averages between too.. if you set 5000rpm at -16% and 6000 at -15% then 550 is -15.5%

as for mounting the maf box in the car, no ive never seen that done.. though i suppose you could.. you can also put a MBC in your car by running vac lines all the way inside.. yay

 

[98eclipseRS]

Originally posted by Wobble


My friend has the GM maf, and no you cant vent to the atmosphere with it UNLESS you get the blowthrough setup which requires quite a bit more cost..

and reduce lag? maby if you have a GIANT turbo where the stock maf is a restriction.. otherwise.. no difference..

higher quality BOV? a Greddy Type S or Type R isnt high quality enough? even HKS makes a recirculatable BOV.. HKS is cheap?

as for idle, well my friend never got a good idle with it with 550s, but it turned out one of the injectors had a little leak so maby that was it..

but the bottom line is the maft tunes in increments of 5% where as the AFC tunes in 1% and averages between too.. if you set 5000rpm at -16% and 6000 at -15% then 550 is -15.5%

as for mounting the maf box in the car, no ive never seen that done.. though i suppose you could.. you can also put a MBC in your car by running vac lines all the way inside.. yay

venting to the atmosphere doens't cost much more than some rubber reducer couplers. Just hack away at your uicp and put it in, it aint that hard.

yes reduce lag. Any restiction will cause ANY turbo to spool slower. A local guy hits full boost(18psi) at 3000 rpm on a big 16g with the gm mas in the draw through set up. My 14b doesn't even spool that fast and im only pushing 12 psi at the moment.

yes higher quality bov such as a tail or the likes of that. You can't recirculate that. Or what about the popele that have the rfl they can't recirculate. nowhere did i say that those bovs where not quality.

I never said the translator was the end all solution to tunning either as a matter of fact I will be running both the maft and an safc. The maft to tune globaly and the safc to fine tune.

 

[nine5raptor]

in car (like mine): http://www.144mph.com/gm.htm

Also, I did the blowthrough for the price of 2 reducers as was stated by 98eclipseRS

Any maf is a restriction, even a filter is a restriction. On my 14b, I saw about a 300 rpm decrease in boost threshold (I can hit 18psi well below 3000) and a noticable decrease in lag.

As for idle, you can get 160lb/hr injectors to idle like stock (it has been done with a custom maft) vs. the afc can't even get 720's to idle right due to its limited range.

Also, the good thing about the maft is its load based tuning vs. the afc's tps/rpm tuning. They can be used very effectively together and pick up where the other leaves off.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

400 for the translator and sensor....300 for the SAFC....wow u can almost get a stand alone.