made up my mind of what mods to get finally

[nowayout]

After trying to buy a used turbo from dsm trader.
When I got it it was a airesearch turbo not a T3/T4.

I decided no more used stuff.


here my list off stuff that should be on the car by Febuary and ready for spring.
here the main goal
11.00 1/4 street driven
12.59 only 93 oct if race gas is not avialible
this car will run on race gas only 104 unleaded.

AEM EMS (should be out anyday)
Turbo XS boost controller for now
walboro 255 on it's way
Greddy EGT and Boost gauge
660 injector
Custom tubular manifold, exhaust, Tail wastgate external and down made by a very good friend
T3/T4 ball bearing turbo
custom front mount intercooler and piping will try to fit the biggest spearco core I can put up front.
aeromotive fuel pressure regulator, gauge and -6 fuel line
act 2600 clutch
lighten fly wheel (minds not made up of which one yet)
new shift fork and Quaife diff as long as the tranny is out.
HkS cams 272/264
ARP head studs
underdrive pulley

when the go fast stuff get done maybe Racing hart C2 18' and big brake setup.



total buget $10,000 +/- w/o labor

any suggestion will be appreciated

I'm used to supra not dsm.

 

[rdrkt]

I don’t think you have a firm grasp on what it truly takes to make a car that is that fast. Not tying to be insulting just saying that you need to do A LOT more research before getting too far.

Saying you want a t3/t4 is like me saying I have an Eagle. Its not very specific at all. Think 60-1 call up a few shops and ask them what they think.

Your injectors are no where near large enough for a standalone. If you want to make 500hp on a standalone I would not consider anything smaller than an 850cc and even that may be a bit small.

As for FMIC trust me just go with the standard Spearco 216 “race” core. It will be so much easier to fit in your car. The next size up is a 205 and while that will its going to take a lot of work to make it happen. Besides people have run 10s with that core.

If you want to run fast and make big power just get the 272s the idle isn’t that much worse but they make significantly more power.

You will NEVER hook good enough to run a low 11 on 18s just get that bling out of your head. Traction is going to be the real name of the game. Some toyo R1s on 16s with some sidewall to them would be my suggestion.

Quaife is a very expensive choice. I assume you are getting their center diff. I would just go with a 4 gear spyder diff from BM tranny. Its much cheaper and will hold up just as well. Also why would you just get shift forks and not entirely redo the internals while you are at it. If you really want you car to be reliable and work well think about a full out rebuilt tranny with a Galant 1st gear and all the right upgraded pieces. For the flywheel I would only think about getting an aftermarket one. I have seen way too many stock and lightened stock flywheels explode.

Your budget also looks a bit small. It may include all the things you have on your list but there is always more things that you need that you never thought of. Also consider where you live and who can do your tuning for you. Whenever you think standalone. It may cost you another thousand bucks on top of the cost of the AEM to get it installed and dyno tuned.

Again do some more searching and research before you make any big fiscal decisions.

 

[candela]

wow...

 

[nowayout]

the Turbo will be 60-1 mainly for top end.

The 18's are for fun and it would be the last thing that I will buy. Anyone who has had a fast car knows that bigger rims means slower

Track use I still have my 16'

660 should get me into the 11 easily and well sufficient for what I'm using the car for.
I can switch to 720 or 850 when needed.
flywheel will be after market for sure.
272/272 is an option because the car is not a dialy driver so ruff idle is fine.
That why I'm buying a standalone it easier to switch to bigger injector.
I don't have to get an SAFC, pocket logger.
Plus I have played with standalones and have good friend that can help program it.


The most difficult part that I see is dyno tuning. All the dyno arond my here at 2wd.


RDRKT thank you for giving me the intercooler core size that will fit easily. I can order that right away and get the end tanks on it.


Your right on the tranny. Considering I'm going to tear into it any ways might as well do all the little trick to it. On the dsm I more worry about the tranny than the engine. oh well there goes another $1500 to 2K.

Remenber I'm building this car for fun and because I can afford it.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by nowayout
660 should get me into the 11 easily and well sufficient for what I'm using the car for.
I can switch to 720 or 850 when needed.

Your just not getting me you will be in for an expensive lesson you CAN'T make 500hp with 660s on a standalone. Units like the Haltech and AEM don’t manage injectors anywhere near as well as the stock ecu with ad ons. There is a lot more injector dead time with a standalone. Call anyone that sells them and ask you what size injector you are going to need to run the times you are looking for and they will tell you the same thing.

Originally posted by nowayout
272/272 is an option because the car is not a dialy driver so ruff idle is fine.

Idle wont be rough trust me. I am switching form webs to HKS and I bet the idle will be a lot smoother.

Originally posted by nowayout
The most difficult part that I see is dyno tuning. All the dyno arond my here at 2wd.

That isn’t a huge issue. Switching your car over to 2wd has been well documented and its relatively painless.

Originally posted by nowayout
RDRKT thank you for giving me the intercooler core size that will fit easily. I can order that rightway and get the end tanks on it.

You can look up the core dimensions on the spearco website. Its going to be tough to beat IRC on their pricing trust me. The money you save isn’t worth trying to fabricate the piping on your own.

 

[nowayout]

By the time it all said and done it will be near the $40K in mods that was spend on the supra too.


Well money pit #4 has begone.!!!!!!


This time my wife can't say I need to sell to by a house.

 

[nowayout]

RDRKT

So your saying 720 at a min and 850 for sure on injector.

I remenber a friend supra make less power with a standalone then my stock ecu with the same setup as my old car.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by nowayout
So your saying 720 at a min and 850 for sure on injector.

I have seen people make a little under 500hp with a Red using 720cc injectors with a Haltech but that was a very special tuner/setup. Most people wanting to make big power look 960cc injectors and larger. I personally chose 850s because I think they are the smallest injectors that can still meet my power goal. I do think I will need to run pretty high fuel pressure if I want to make anything more than 500hp. I will just have to see how tuning goes over the next few months.

Originally posted by nowayout
I remenber a friend supra make less power with a standalone then my stock ecu with the same setup as my old car.

People that don’t know what they are doing or can't find someone to tune their car should never ever touch a standalone. People with too much hubris are always going to fail. If you aren’t intimately familiar with how a car makes power than you need to find someone that does. A car with a standalone should make a much better daily driver and have much better control over timing than a stock ecu with piggybacks.

 

[nowayout]

Thank for the info.

does anyone know the ph.# or wed site for IRC intercooler. I will check it out before ordering a core.


RDRDKT

I guess 850 and we will see how the out come is.

everyone that builded a car knows $12000 inparts then the motor goes. There another $5k in head work and engine.


I'm alway prepared for the big headache. It's never as easy as it seems.


LUE

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by nowayout
Thank for the info.

No problem I love talking about this stuff. I have my own project going on now. So I know how hard it can be.

Originally posted by nowayout
does anyone know the ph.# or wed site for IRC intercooler. I will check it out before ordering a core.

http://www.indyracecores.com

 

[nowayout]

The reason I'm spending a ton of money on this project is because I told my wife I will keep it.

My Supra was sold not by chioce,

So the dsm is going to be fast and done right.
I found out that cutting corners only get you so far.

 

[2-0turbo]

Originally posted by rdrkt

Your just not getting me you will be in for an expensive lesson you CAN'T make 500hp with 660s on a standalone. Units like the Haltech and AEM don’t manage injectors anywhere near as well as the stock ecu with ad ons. There is a lot more injector dead time with a standalone. Call anyone that sells them and ask you what size injector you are going to need to run the times you are looking for and they will tell you the same thing.

Where do you get this? "Units like the Haltech and AEM don’t manage injectors anywhere near as well as the stock ecu with ad ons" . What do you base this on? Do you have evidence of this?

Nowayout, I think that rdrkt is "anti-standalone". I discussed the AEM in a thread a few weeks ago and rdrkt is just very negative. I find it really hard to believe (okay...impossible) that a late 1980's era computer with 8-bit processing "manages" (whatever the hell that means) a fuel injector "better" after having it's signal run through additional A-D converters (your add-ons) than a modern 16/32 bit system. I cannot speak for the AEM (since I don't own one yet), but the PowerFC actually allows you to specify what dead time you want for the injectors to tailor different injectors to your application (i.e. different dead times for pintle vs. disc).

Nowayout, on a properly tuned car, you can make on the order of 500 HP with those 660 cc injectors. (90% duty cycle, BSFC of 0.51) You don't need to go bigger than 660's unless you plan on making more power than this or if you think you can't tune to a BSFC of 0.51. That 60-1 turbo is probably capable of more than 500--that is a big wheel. Have fun and make changes slowly.

AND, get more than rdrkt and my opinions before you plunk down a bazillion dollars. And, don't just listen to a shop because they tell you something. I just read a thread tonight (if the poster is to be believed) that MachV told him he could just bolt on 550's with no fuel control and run just fine. BS.

 

[nowayout]

one advantage of standalone is yiou can still get big injectors to idle well.

 

[IPT]

What type of injectors are you looking at?? I have seen 750cc injectors work fine on a Haltech equiped 1G that put down 535 whp. He was using ball disc style. They are tons easier to get to idle then the pintle style ones and the flow more too.

 

[nowayout]

So I don't have to do it agian 720 ro 850. I the price are the same or close 850.

doesn't matter if they are pin or disc.

 

[IPT]

Originally posted by nowayout

doesn't matter if they are pin or disc.

Yes the do matter. The pintle injectors do not like to idle very well because the duty cycle is so low on them.

The Ball disc style ones can handle the lowere duty cycle. i know a guy that was running 1000cc injectors on a 14B haltech car (don't ask)

They were ball disc style and the car idled great.

 

[nowayout]

You can get a pintle to idle ok as long as it's under 1000 cc.
I have work much with disk design so I wouldn't know it it's much better.

 

[IPT]

Yes you can get pintle to idle, the ball disc just idle better.

 

[2-0turbo]

Originally posted by nowayout
You can get a pintle to idle ok as long as it's under 1000 cc.
I have work much with disk design so I wouldn't know it it's much better.

I would prefer the disc style. As IPT said, they idle better, can run higher duty cycles and especially at higher fuel pressures, have a better spray pattern than the pintle style. You can get RC550's cheap. Bigger than that and they get expensive. (unless you know of a source I don't). A good alternative to the disc style is the ball style (bosch type) injectors. These are the same style sold by DSM Performance . Holley sells these in a universal 55, 65, 75, 85 lb/hr injectors for the V8 crowd at very reasonable prices. The only changes needed are to machine down the plastic end that holds the O'ring in place so they fit the head/rail.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by 2-0turbo
Where do you get this? "Units like the Haltech and AEM don’t manage injectors anywhere near as well as the stock ecu with ad ons" . What do you base this on? Do you have evidence of this?

I have seen how a lot of people have their Haltechs setup. Many people much smarter than I me have come to the same conclusion.

Originally posted by 2-0turbo
Nowayout, I think that rdrkt is "anti-standalone". I discussed the AEM in a thread a few weeks ago and rdrkt is just very negative.

I think that is pretty funny considering I just ordered a Haltech this week. I have ALWAYS been against the vpc, safc, tmo, pocket logger combo. That just doesn’t make fiscal sense. But I think people underestimate how difficult it is to setup and successfully run a standalone. If you think its simple to setup and tune then you don’t have a good grasp of things.

Originally posted by 2-0turbo
I find it really hard to believe (okay...impossible) that a late 1980's era computer with 8-bit processing "manages" (whatever the hell that means) a fuel injector "better" after having it's signal run through additional A-D converters (your add-ons) than a modern 16/32 bit system.

It has to do with the injector firing is handled. Most standalones have difficulty running sequential injection (all injectors at once). They usually run batch fire (2 at once) which increases injector dead time. There are a lot of very technical things involved in how you program a standalone to deal with the injectors. I don’t understand it entirely but the bottom line is that end up needing bigger injectors then you think.

Originally posted by 2-0turbo
Nowayout, on a properly tuned car, you can make on the order of 500 HP with those 660 cc injectors. (90% duty cycle, BSFC of 0.51) You don't need to go bigger than 660's unless you plan on making more power than this or if you think you can't tune to a BSFC of 0.51.

That is really the difference between your calculator and the real world. I love it when people think they can pull out their formulas and try to prove things one way or another. Those formulas point you in the right direction but its hardly the final word. Look at what type of injectors people use with standalones compare that with the vpc/afc crowd. I think you MIGHT be able to get away with 660s on a vpc/afc but certainty not on a standalone. If you don’t believe me call the people that sell them and ask them what they think.

Originally posted by 2-0turbo
AND, get more than rdrkt and my opinions before you plunk down a bazillion dollars. And, don't just listen to a shop because they tell you something.

I wholeheartedly agree. I'm nobody haven’t made any big numbers on my own (yet). Ask people that have done this type of thing before. Call up Turbotrix or Magnus and ask them what they think. They have setup many customer cars so they know what it takes.

Originally posted by 2-0turbo
I just read a thread tonight (if the poster is to be believed) that MachV told him he could just bolt on 550's with no fuel control and run just fine. BS.

Not necessarily. You should be able to hack the MAS in a way that you should get decent driveabilty. That is hardly an ideal solution but it can work.

 

[nowayout]

When your going to the extent that I'm willing to go here. It's like starting with mini steps.

First thing it get running and idling and you work your way up te rpms band for low boost then high boost.


It can take a week or a year. ( thank god my car is not as daily driver)


You get all done and it not running right because one wire is loose.

Getting the parts is the easy part getting running right is a whole different stories.

If I can get this car together and running right by the end of next year I be a very happy man.