Super16g verses EVO III 16g

[szewczyd]

Which turbo would be better for dialy drivering and weekend racing. Does either one require massive upgrades in other areas on the engine?
I have a 91 TSI AWD with intake, and 3 inch exhaust from turbo back and thats about all.

 

[AdrenilineCrash]

the evo is an all aroung better turbo for anything. its also not that much more expensive. i also beleive i heard someone was having some special on them. slowboy racing sells them for 599 and sells the big 16G for 579. so for 20 more bucks you get way better performance. everything about it is better. look into it yourself.

-mike

 

[dsm]

if your talking about the hrc super 16g, its a great turbo imo. i had it for over 2yrs, ran multiple 12's, made 300+whp, and lag was almost none. dont know much about the evo 16g. hrc is also having a sale now.

 

[ShapeGSX]

I've run a [email protected] with the Evo III Big 16G. That was the first time out with that turbo (installed it on Sunday, raced on Wednesday). And there is a lot more left in it.

The 10cm^2 Super 16G gives you horrible spoolup, which gets rid of the 16G's strength. And the added complexity required to get the 10cm housing to clear the engine is ridiculous. There are just more parts to fail.

HRC's claim was that when you get the Super 16G, there is less to upgrade when you finally go with a 20G. But these days, there are so many turbos that are in the 20G and larger category to choose from that it would be idiotic to try and figure out what turbo you are going to upgrade to in a couple years. What if it isn't a Super 20G? What if you want a green? All that extra expense and complexity for nothing. And then you have to try and get rid of the Super 16G...

 

[dsm]

my best mph was 113 with the hrc s16g and it still had more too. the spool up time was next to none, dont knwo what your talking about buddy.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by dsm
my best mph was 113 with the hrc s16g and it still had more too. the spool up time was next to none, dont knwo what your talking about buddy.

How many 10ths of a second is "next to none?"

I guarantee you that a regular 16G with a 7cm exhaust housing WILL spool faster than a Super 16G.

Incidentally, does your Super 16G have a small or big 16G compressor wheel?

 

[dsm]

Originally posted by ShapeGSX


How many 10ths of a second is "next to none?"

I guarantee you that a regular 16G with a 7cm exhaust housing WILL spool faster than a Super 16G.

Incidentally, does your Super 16G have a small or big 16G compressor wheel?

it might spool up by a tenth faster. ive raced ppl with small 16g's and from a roll the spool up wasnt any faster.
the wheel is just a 16g wheel.

 

[ShapeGSX]

I should point out that it takes less power to get to a certain trap speed with a FWD than it does with an AWD car.

FWDs are pretty light, and I see you have a carbon fiber hood. I'm not sure if that body kit is lighter of heavier. Any idea what your car weighs?

My car is full weight. Stock hood, stock body, etc... 3150lbs without the spare or jack, and 3315 with me in it.

Add in the lower drivetrain loss, and there is probably a significant power difference between our cars. And given the HKS 264 cams that I have, I'd expect that.

 

[MaineDSM]

Not trying to be a HRC supporter, Josh, but this guy has the Super 16G and knows what it can do.

From what I've seen, everyone who doesn't have a "Super" turbo says: "10cm housing?!? That's incredibly stupid, it's gonna spool like crap!" However, most of the people who actually have one says it spools about the same as a normal "un-super" turbo.

The only conclusion is that this "10cm" housing is not what we think it is. Since going from a 7cm to 8cm housing on a Green or Red introduces almost unstreetable lag, this thing that HRC uses can't be a 10cm in that context.

 

[dsm]

Originally posted by ShapeGSX
I should point out that it takes less power to get to a certain trap speed with a FWD than it does with an AWD car.

FWDs are pretty light, and I see you have a carbon fiber hood. I'm not sure if that body kit is lighter of heavier. Any idea what your car weighs?

My car is full weight. Stock hood, stock body, etc... 3150lbs without the spare or jack, and 3315 with me in it.

Add in the lower drivetrain loss, and there is probably a significant power difference between our cars. And given the HKS 264 cams that I have, I'd expect that.

ok so u have cams and ran 113mph, right? i dont have cams and ran 113mph, if i did my mph would be higher then yours, is it safe to assume that? my car with me in it weighs 3150, full interior, wheel and jack in trunk. so your car weighs abut 200lbs more. my point is the hrc isnt a bad turbo, and in the end of this discussion it looks like both turbos are good to go with, would u agree?

 

[dsm]

Originally posted by MaineDSM
Not trying to be a HRC supporter, Josh, but this guy has the Super 16G and knows what it can do.

From what I've seen, everyone who doesn't have a "Super" turbo says: "10cm housing?!? That's incredibly stupid, it's gonna spool like crap!" However, most of the people who actually have one says it spools about the same as a normal "un-super" turbo.

The only conclusion is that this "10cm" housing is not what we think it is. Since going from a 7cm to 8cm housing on a Green or Red introduces almost unstreetable lag, this thing that HRC uses can't be a 10cm in that context.

true, that i dont know about the 10cm, if thats what they say, ok.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Actually, no. I still think that the Evo III Big 16G is the way to go.

Price: You don't need a special $300 install kit for an Evo III Big 16G. You don't need a special O2 housing. Without the O2 housing, you are talking $800 to bolt up an HRC S16G. With the O2 housing, you need to add on another $150.

Complexity: The Evo III Big 16G just bolts right up on the exhaust side. The HRC S16G requires a special adapter to go from the round exhaust manifold outlet to the rectangular turbine inlet. That is 4 extra bolts to break and one extra gasket to blow. It also requires a spacer to move the oddly shaped 10cm exhaust housing away from the block. That means 9 extra long studs, and another extra manifold gasket to blow.

Power: As far as I can see, there is no power benefit to using an HRC 16G over a standard 16G. People have gone much faster with standard 16Gs than they have with HRC 16Gs.

Lag: The HRC turbo does have more lag than a standard Evo III Big 16G.

I just don't understand paying an extra $330 to $480 to end up in the exact same place (and that is being generous) I am with my $569 turbo. Or am I missing something?

Why WOULD you go with an HRC setup? It is more expensive. It is more complex, with more parts to break. It produces roughly the same power, with the edge going to the standard 16G. And it has more lag than a standard 16G.

 

[dsm]

haha,
this can go back and forth for eternity. the s16g is NOT that laggy, have u owned one? i bet, no.

i do agree that for the price the evo 16g is great to go with why not u save money.

even though hahn has extra studs and gaskets, for over 2 and half yrs of beating the life of that turbo and car running it at the track and racing on the streets i have never ONCE blown anything, gaskets, studs, etc, if the instal was done right.

my point again is that the hrc turbos arent as bad as ppl think, just because it has a 10cm housing.

 

[GSTwkd]

I figured I would jump in on this since I'm one of the few that actually like my S16g. Yes, I believe it is a little more laggy but since I'm fwd its not an issue and once its spooled its not like it dies inbetween shifts. Also I believe one of the reasons it has a 10cm housing is to eliminate boost creep and from what I've seen the small 16gs tend to have that problem(not all). I know when I dynoed my car I got 303whp and 343wtq and that was with my old smic. It got heat soaked before the end of one pull and when I look at my dyno sheet I reach 300whp by 4500rpms and holds it to 6600rpms where it starts to drop down to 275whp by 7200rpms and I think that shows how much my smic was holding me back. I have a fmic now which I should(I know I'm guessing) add about 10-15whp if not more. So when I look at my sheet I see a nice consistent pull thru the rpms with room to grow. I still have my stock tb, intake mani, and head so I'm pretty happy with my experience with the S16g. Now I'm putting in the S20g which I paid $599 from Hahn this week and some 680cc injectors and am hoping for some good numbers. We'll see