Just Finished 6bolt swap...car wont start, please read!

[Brian]

Alright I just got done finally doing the 6Bolt swap in my car and was pretty confident. Well it isnt starting now, let me explain. At first it was not starting at all like when I turned the key all that would happen is the lights would get dim and it seemed like a power issue so I hooked it up to another car and still the same thing. So my friend goes down to manually turn the crank a little, maybe give it a bit of help since it hasnt been started in awhile and then it does try to start till I hear this loud metal on metal knock and it does that once and the car stops trying to start, so we manually turned the crank as much as we could and it doesnt go very far maybe 1 1/2 full rotations with the socket then it stops and doesnt allow us to turn it any farther, so we try to start it and it does the same thing over and over, it will try and start until that click, like something is getting caught or stuck on something else. I think it sounds like it is coming from the crank pulley side of the engine somewhere, but the flywheel or clutch side is a possiblity also. I have gotten a few suggestions saying that it could be a piston hitting a valve, but timing seems to be good. I was suggested to test the compression which im going to do today also. One thing that we were stupid about and forgot was to pull the spark plugs when cranking it which may be why we couldnt turn it very far till it would stop, so I will pull those today and crank it and see what it does then. Even if it does crank like normal, would not having the plugs out cause that noise, the noise is what is scaring me. Give me any suggestions or tips and that would be great, I've gotten this far I would like to try and keep it out of a shop.

 

[candela]

Well Im trying to think of what noise you are talking about. It could jsut be that when you are trying to crank it you do nt have enough juice to keep it going and when it stops you think you are hearing a noise....

Plugs in will not matter. Yes these are interface motors, but you shoudl still be able to crank it regrdless of the valves. if your timing is infact on and everythign is ok, really try to manually crank it. Make sure its not slowing or stoping cause you are coming to compression stroke....cause if thats what it is then keep it turning to make sure that nothing is binding at all. Did you eliminate the balance shafts? Who assembled the block? When you do get it turnign over make sure you crank it for a while to build oil pressure. You may hear a little clanking at first before the lifters and such get properly lubed....

 

[Brian]

It gets to a point where I swear you cant crank it anymore. Like it just stops you from turning it. Yes the balance shafts are eliminated. Its like you will try to start it and it will try and then there is a loud clank then it stops trying, I dont know if this has relevance but when cranking it manually the driveshaft was not turning.

 

[Brian]

Alright well its come to a diff. point, I bought motor with 1000 miles on it and it ran fine before when it was in the other car it was in. It sat out of a car for about a month if that would do anything. I honestly dont think its anything internal, I just dont know what it could be. Now the car wont even turn over really at all, I will try to start it and one thing I do see is the ground wire that goes from the car to the intake manny, gets so hot and starts to smoke and that happens over the course of 3 sec. But I was thinking it was maybe the starter gone bad and took that off and had it tested, at first time they tested it it had trouble but the other trials said it fine. I tried the cranking again and this is for sure, I can crank it prob. not even one rotation and it completely stops, like it wont let it turn anymore, and that happens when cranking it in either direction. Any new ideas.

 

[cait sith]

There is no timing that's "pretty good".

It should be PERFECT.

Since you're at a point where you can't crank it, I'm willing to bet you're 1) Hitting valves, and 2) have bent valves.

I did two valve jobs on my motor before I got it *RUNNING* like it is now. I know.

So do a compression check.

 

[Brian]

All timing marks line up and are positioned where they should be, I just dont see how the piston could be hitting valves, if the timing is where its suppose to be.

 

[cait sith]

Originally posted by Brian
All timing marks line up and are positioned where they should be, I just dont see how the piston could be hitting valves, if the timing is where its suppose to be.

DO A COMPRESSION CHECK.

 

[Brian]

I cant do a compression check, the motor wont crank more then 1/2 a rotation.

 

[cait sith]

You don't do compression checks by hand.

You use the starter.

I'm 99.99% sure you're hitting valves.

 

[Brian]

Alright I took off the valve cover to look at the springs and stuff. Let me say things dont seem right at all. First off there are about 5 or 6 lash adjusters that are sitting where they should be but they arent being touched by the cam shaft. like the springs are compressed but it like they are stuck down cuz I can just knock the adjuster off the top of them, Im guessing those are bent valves. Also how are the valves suppose to compress because on one cylinder 2 are compressed and 2 arent and the 2 that arent are the ones that look like they are stuck. If you need me to explain anymore I will try but i think you all know what it is.

 

[1LE]

Can you post a picture or 2?

 

[Brian]

sorry when i said lash adjusters I meant rocker arms.

 

[i'm boosted]

Pull the head

 

[neal]

is this new motor all factory? did you buy new cams if so did you degree them? or what about new gears? did the motor crank on the stand? sounds like bent valves to me

 

[Kingdom]

is it a JDM motor or a regular US spec 6-bolt?

 

[Cablefed]

Once again, PULL THE HEAD! Only way to tell.

 

[Brian]

I am pulling the head, settle down.

 

[samgvr4]

Brian,

make sure when you installed the motor in you car, that everything on the tranny side is in check, what i mean is the input shaft lined up properly, also the flywheel make sure everything is torqued.
Happened on my friend 97 GST when we put the tranny on, we tried to crank it by hand and did exactly what you were describing.

Goodluck

Sam
1706/2000 Galant VR-4
1990 Eclipse GSX

 

[Brian]

We havent gotten the head off just yet, that is happening today but we got the spark plugs out and can see small pieces of metal laying on top of the pistons and all the spark plugs were bent showing the pistons were hitting the plugs, a few valves are stuck compressed so im guessing the metal I may be seeing is from destroyed valves. My buddy has a friend who builds engines and said he thinks the 4th cylinder, that the piston may have turned or soemthing like that, we have to drop the pan and check the crank and pistons from that end and determine whats all messed up. Anyone have any idea what could of happen, this guy said a number of things could of caused it.

 

[jra4e]

Originally posted by Kingdom
is it a JDM motor or a regular US spec 6-bolt?

just to be nosey, not to be smart, why would it matter to be jdm

sorry to hijack thread

 

[mustg5]

i know it sounds stupid, but just to throw it out there. Is it in gear. Even with the clutch pushed in, it might not be disengaging, causing the tranny trying to turn also. Just figured id throw it out there. But sounds most likely like your valves got stuck and bent some.

 

[fastdsmz]

Sounds like you are most likely hittiing valves. Are you sure you didnt set your cams 180 degrees out. Just a question i know of it being done before? set your timing marks, pull the valve cover and make sure the #1 cam lobes are pointed up. Just an easy way to check.

 

[markgholland]

Originally posted by Cablefed
Once again, PULL THE HEAD! Only way to tell.

 

[Kingdom]

Originally posted by jra4e
just to be nosey, not to be smart, why would it matter to be jdm

sorry to hijack thread

Well, somebody had a problem with a JDM engine saying the oil relief valve was different causing the lifter to push the valve in too far and I thought he might had the same problem. I also was installing a 6-bolt jdm so I was worried and asked. because I dont want to have the same problem.

But I just checked and rechecked and both the JDM and USDM are the same. Thats why my car is running now.

 

[theslacker2]

when you did your swap did you change the flywheel its possible that you got the wrong one. my buddy and i just put a new trans in his fwd 1g and he picked up a lightened flywheel. long story short it was an awd flywheel and the teeth are farther away from the starter on the wasnt reaching the flywheel and turning the crank. basicly im just giving you the heads up. i didnt read all the posts i just skimmed over them and saw it wasnt starting.