Running a 16g "dry".. ?

[Wobble]

I am not a big fan of water cooled turbos, seeing as how the point of watercooling is to idiot proof the turbo for people who dont know to buy a turbo tiner or idle their car properly before shutoff..

if you do proper cooldown you shouldent need watercooling, all it accomplishes is heating up your coolant..

SO-

is there any problem running a 16g dry? I ask becasue it was designed wet, but does anyone know of any real problem with running it dry assuming you used a good synthetic, and a turbo timer?? it would be dead simple to just loop the water lines and would probably help the car run cooler in the summer too..

im getting a ETE32 around winter time anyway, but was just wondering...

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by Wobble
I am not a big fan of water cooled turbos, seeing as how the point of watercooling is to idiot proof the turbo for people who dont know to buy a turbo tiner or idle their car properly before shutoff..

if you do proper cooldown you shouldent need watercooling, all it accomplishes is heating up your coolant..

Your basic premise is flawed. The water cooling is also to allow a smaller, more efficient, less-resisting, lower-inertia, quicker-spooling turbine. That another benefit is a longer life for an abused turbo is largely circumstantial.
Using a timer to cool down a hot engine isn't truly "proper"- you'll get much more efficient and balanced cooldown by moving through the air at an unloaded 2K rpm.
A water-cooled spool doesn't have enough oil capacity to have any decent life expectancy without water cooling. In the grand scheme of the engine, the amount of heat transferred to the cooling system from the turbine is negligible compared to the amount of heat going on in the combustion chambers during boost. And, now you're removing the stress of heat removal from the water and coolant to the engine oil, which will be working that much harder to reject the heat, as well as carrying that heat further into the engine than the water jacket does. Don't try this with a factory oil cooler.
I don't think it'll live very long on oil-cooling alone.

 

[Ben K]

Originally posted by Defiant
Your basic premise is flawed. The water cooling is also to allow a smaller, more efficient, less-resisting, lower-inertia, quicker-spooling turbine. That another benefit is a longer life for an abused turbo is largely circumstantial.
Using a timer to cool down a hot engine isn't truly "proper"- you'll get much more efficient and balanced cooldown by moving through the air at an unloaded 2K rpm.
A water-cooled spool doesn't have enough oil capacity to have any decent life expectancy without water cooling. In the grand scheme of the engine, the amount of heat transferred to the cooling system from the turbine is negligible compared to the amount of heat going on in the combustion chambers during boost. And, now you're removing the stress of heat removal from the water and coolant to the engine oil, which will be working that much harder to reject the heat, as well as carrying that heat further into the engine than the water jacket does. Don't try this with a factory oil cooler.
I don't think it'll live very long on oil-cooling alone.

What?

Wobble,

Don't connect the water lines, you'll be just fine.

 

[GRNDSM]

This is probably not good for turbo’s longevity, but you can do this. My 11.84 run was made on a 14b running “dry”. I was in the middle of swapping several turbos in and out, so I didn’t feel like dealing with water lines. It ran just fine with out water and clearly, was pretty efficient .

But I wouldn’t do this to a turbo that I cared about . I reconnected those lines for my GT30 turbo.

Leon
RR

 

[Wobble]

Well, most Gerrett turbos run dry, the ones on our diesel delivery trucks are dry turbos, and they last over 100k easy..

Most turbos you see that are wet are coming on factory cars stock... so that hot shutdowns dont cook the oil, but most aftermarket turbos, especially arretts are dry...

so it stands to reason (to me) that the only thing that can really kill a turbo is coking, which can be prevented with a good synthetic oil and proper cooldown time after a hard pull.

I was running my poor 14b at 20 psi for a long time before i got the 16g, and when i pulled it apart there was 0 coking, none whatsoever.. yes it WAS running wet, but i doubt that little bit of water would make a turbo go from running with no coking, to dieing from it..

it just doesent make sense..

I hate mitsu turbos..

 

[GRNDSM]

>Well, most Gerrett turbos run dry, the ones on our diesel delivery trucks are dry turbos,
>and they last over 100k easy..

You can’t really compare them this way. I have been told that turbos that are meant to run dry have heavier duty bearings and rely on more oil going through them.

But given how many people have ran their turbos dry, shows that event stock bearings are OK.

Leon
RR

 

[Ben K]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
I have been told that turbos that are meant to run dry have heavier duty bearings and rely on more oil going through them.
Leon
RR

Hmm. I use the same journal bearings, same thrust bearing, same thrust collar, same piston ring, actually same everything weather I build a dry or wet turbo in either Garrett or MHI brands.

Now, if you have a GTBB CHRA, please use the water lines.

 

[GRNDSM]

>Hmm. I use the same journal bearings, same thrust bearing, same thrust collar,
>same piston ring, actually same everything weather I build a dry or wet turbo
>in either Garrett or MHI brands.

Now, is this the case of YOU being a good builder and using heavy duty components on ALL of your turbos (water cooler or dry), or that is how they come from the factory? I am not a turbo builder, so I can only go by information that is given to me .

>Now, if you have a GTBB CHRA, please use the water lines.

That is definitely the case! GTBB CHRA do not have enough oil to sufficiently cool them off.

Leon
RR

 

[Wobble]

hmm, no real clear cut answer yet..

Im just curious, why does a turbo need to be cooled? its made to get hot.. RED HOT, as long as the oil doesent cook the turbo should be fine.. right?

 

[turbobrian]

ben answer me this.

i hade a full garrett t3/t4 built. water and oil. the builder told me he put the 360 bering in it. i was told by another builder that that was false, and that because it was oil and water the 360 would not fit. who is telling the truth?

brian

 

[Ben K]

Originally posted by turbobrian
ben answer me this.

i hade a full garrett t3/t4 built. water and oil. the builder told me he put the 360 bering in it. i was told by another builder that that was false, and that because it was oil and water the 360 would not fit. who is telling the truth?

brian

We use the same 360 degree thrust bearing, washer, and collar weather it's a wet or dry bearing housing. The only issue with the wet housing is if you drill and tap the housing too deep to mount the thrust bearing, you will hit the water jacket. This isn't a problem for most turbo builders because they do not bolt their thrust bearing to the center housing. We don't like "just using the spring" to hold the thrust bearing in place. Our turbos will allow for greater thrust loads because the thrust bearing can't move.

You also have to realize that there are quite a few different T3, T4, Turbonetics, Innovative, and Rotomaster bearing housings in dry and wet variety that could have been used for your build. Personally, I've never seen any of these housings unable to accept a 360 degree thrust.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Ben K]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
[B
Now, is this the case of YOU being a good builder and using heavy duty components on ALL of your turbos (water cooler or dry), or that is how they come from the factory? I am not a turbo builder, so I can only go by information that is given to me .

Leon
RR [/B]

This could be the case as every custom built T3, T4, and T58 style turbo that goes out my door has all the best parts. 99% of factory built Garrett T3 and T4 CHRAs do not come with a bolt down 360 degree thrust. They have a spring holding down the 270 degree thrust bearing.

 

[DSMJim]

I use a 50Trim Turbonetics turbo on my car. I opted for Dry because I didn't want to deal with the extra BS of a wet center. I dont find my air temps to be 1deg bit higher (I have a fmic) with just an Oil cooled turbo nor do I feel it hampers perf on a turbo to be wet vs dry. I have used both on lots of cars and honestly found the only diff was wet is just more of a pain to hook up.

Also simplifies your install, just loop your water lines together and hook up oil. Ever changed a stock turbo? You know the PITA it is getting the lines all hooked up and dealing with the bolts and getting the seals in right etc etc.. Oil only with soft braided lines is SOOO easy it's amazing.

 

[turbobrian]

thanks ben you answered my question perfectly. could you email me privatly. i would like to chat with you sometime.

[email protected]
brian

Originally posted by Ben K


We use the same 360 degree thrust bearing, washer, and collar weather it's a wet or dry bearing housing. The only issue with the wet housing is if you drill and tap the housing too deep to mount the thrust bearing, you will hit the water jacket. This isn't a problem for most turbo builders because they do not bolt their thrust bearing to the center housing. We don't like "just using the spring" to hold the thrust bearing in place. Our turbos will allow for greater thrust loads because the thrust bearing can't move.

You also have to realize that there are quite a few different T3, T4, Turbonetics, Innovative, and Rotomaster bearing housings in dry and wet variety that could have been used for your build. Personally, I've never seen any of these housings unable to accept a 360 degree thrust.

Does that answer your question?