o2 housing wastegate vs on manifold

[Shane818]

I am beginning to buy my 50 trim, my oil lines, and intercooler. but when i went to buy a manifold i came acrross some questions and thought you guys are the best to ask. I have been looking around and i know the o2 housing wastegate is more expensive but that doesn't matter. now why would you put a external wastegate before the turbo? why put it on the manifold, wouldn't that make you lose power? i have heard using the o2 housing makes the external louder is this true? are there any drawbacks on either side?

 

[kpt4321]

Why would you lose power with it on the manifold? In either place, it is before the turbine wheel.

Technically speaking, you want to vent from all 4 cylinders evenly, so you want the wastegate coming from either the manifold collector area, or the O2 housing. However, in reality, even venting from just one cylinder as is often done with externals usually works just fine.


.....Kyle T.

 

[flyneagle]

so which one works better??...and which one would everyone prefer?...

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Its a moot point, you can't mount the external on the o2 housing of a Garret turbo...manifold mount for you

Unless its a HYBRID 50 trim. In that case, )2 housing is a bit nicer but alot more money.

Sean

 

[born4music04]

I would go with a PTE 50 trim or a Extreme Psi 50 Trim. THey are both internally gated and it bolts right to a stock manifold. Here's the EP link... http://www.extremepsi.com/x/customer/product.php?productid=16373 ... the PTE web site is down right now. I know some guys with that same turbo on 660cc injectors running 11.70's. They say there is a little creep when u buy it but they ported it a bit with a dremel and it doesn't creep at all now. I'm thinking about getting the EP one. I don't wanna have to buy 660's though. I'll prolly try and run the piss out of the 550's and if I have to get 660's. Good luck.
-Cory

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

You'll soon realize that bigger injectors will be the greatest mod ever...adds so much powr on pump gas its rediculous, and runs sooo much nicer.

Sean

 

[flyneagle]

born4music... dude i already got a pte 50 trim.. but im doing external... internal gates.... SUCK!....and 550s on a 50-trim... dude.. come on now.. get real... no way...you wont be able to do shit with that....

 

[born4music04]

May I ask why internal gate suck? Is it because they don't sound as cool as ext.? The internal gates on the PTE's are very efficient. A little porting and no creep at all. And 550's on a50 trim has been done so many times. It is very possible especially with an A-FPR. Also, don't think you know everything, and if your gonna say something on this forum say it nicely. Don't come off as an @$$ by talking like your the shit and everyone else is dumb. Think before you type and remember this is a Forum to help not to put down. Thanks.
-Cory

 

[DSMJim]

Performance wise there is no difference running the external wastegate from just one runner or from the collector. A lot of people think that if it's from just one runner that it will only be venting just a little exhaust and might not be enough.

Your exhaust manifold works just like anything else with pressure and flow inside of it. If you put a hole in it anywhere at all, the whole damn thing loses pressure across the entire manifold. Flow and Pressure always go to the path of least resistance and when it's getting backed up at the turbine wheel creating more and more boost and all the sudden there is another opening that it can run though (the wastegate) with little to no resistance all the pressure will quickly start escaping there. But it's not like exhaust will turn around and run back up the exhaust manifold and go out that runner, all you need to do is open it there and the pressure below will instantly become less because it's now not being compounded anymore with new ehxaust coming from the car.

We have tested both methods, from the collector and from just one runner on a 540whp Honda and didn't find it made any difference in HP, spool charastics or the wastegates ability to control boost quite simply it was exactly the same, just visually different.

The reason internal wastegates suck is they generally are not very large and can't control boost from spiking on cars with lots of power.

Others may have different theories but we just go from what we test and what works on the dyno and track and those are my findings I just wanted to share.

 

[flyneagle]

born4music... dude i wasnt trying to be mean...i was just saying..i heard from 39742983274 people that internal gates suck....and external is the way to go.... and why would you risk going with 550s on a 50-trim...im sure you can do it.. but im sure you cant nearly as much out of them as you can say 650s or even 720s.... i was trying to help man...not put down...and i dont think im the shit.... until i get my 50-trim and supporting mods on...

 

[kpt4321]

Wrong.

Both setups do work, and there will not be a noticable difference between the two on a mildly powered DSM. However, venting equally from all 4 runners is BETTER. It releases the pressure evenly, unlike venting from one.

The exhaust manifold does NOT have constant pressure and flow across it all the time. It is filled with pulses, and if you only vent one cylinder, you only vent these pulses every 4th cycle.

I answered the question in my first post:

Technically speaking, you want to vent from all 4 cylinders evenly, so you want the wastegate coming from either the manifold collector area, or the O2 housing. However, in reality, even venting from just one cylinder as is often done with externals usually works just fine.

...Kyle T.

Originally posted by DSMJim
Performance wise there is no difference running the external wastegate from just one runner or from the collector. A lot of people think that if it's from just one runner that it will only be venting just a little exhaust and might not be enough.

Your exhaust manifold works just like anything else with pressure and flow inside of it. If you put a hole in it anywhere at all, the whole damn thing loses pressure across the entire manifold. Flow and Pressure always go to the path of least resistance and when it's getting backed up at the turbine wheel creating more and more boost and all the sudden there is another opening that it can run though (the wastegate) with little to no resistance all the pressure will quickly start escaping there. But it's not like exhaust will turn around and run back up the exhaust manifold and go out that runner, all you need to do is open it there and the pressure below will instantly become less because it's now not being compounded anymore with new ehxaust coming from the car.

We have tested both methods, from the collector and from just one runner on a 540whp Honda and didn't find it made any difference in HP, spool charastics or the wastegates ability to control boost quite simply it was exactly the same, just visually different.

The reason internal wastegates suck is they generally are not very large and can't control boost from spiking on cars with lots of power.

Others may have different theories but we just go from what we test and what works on the dyno and track and those are my findings I just wanted to share.

 

[1fast4door]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
Its a moot point, you can't mount the external on the o2 housing of a Garret turbo...manifold mount for you

Unless its a HYBRID 50 trim. In that case, )2 housing is a bit nicer but alot more money.

Sean

Most Garretts are 5 bolt exhaust housings (i believe they are referred to as "ford style") which have provisions for an internal gate or an external mounted on a custom 02 housing. Only the newer 4 bolt garretts "need" an external.

 

[DSMJim]

Originally posted by kpt4321
Wrong.

Both setups do work, and there will not be a noticable difference between the two on a mildly powered DSM. However, venting equally from all 4 runners is BETTER. It releases the pressure evenly, unlike venting from one.

The exhaust manifold does NOT have constant pressure and flow across it all the time. It is filled with pulses, and if you only vent one cylinder, you only vent these pulses every 4th cycle.

I answered the question in my first post:



...Kyle T.

Kyle while I understand what your saying, thats the opposite of what I have read and what I have found through research and dyno testing. I don't know how to explain it but I read it somewhere, If I can find the link I will post it, and it said how it doesn't matter where it's vented from. Basically said even though it's only on 1 cyl it drops pressure across the board though every pulse etc. Either way there is so many exhaust pulses per second that there is pressure across the board inside the manifold at all times and any type of relief valve regardless of placement helps alleviate that pressure. Pressure can be so high inside the exhaust manifold that some times it exceeds the pressure inside the intake manifold. It basically said through testing and flow benching and thermal dynamics blah blah blah (all that crap that I don’t know) that the whole theory of needing to be from the collector is all bunk.

Dude, I'm not trying to start an argument at all, I'm just going on what I have read. I do know from dyno testing on 400+ hp cars that there was absolutely zero and I mean NO difference what so ever in having the wastegate from just one runner or from the collector. I don’t know how that would apply on a 600+ hp car but not many people have one of those. Either way would allow boost to be set at any level we wanted, spool up didn't change and neither did HP. So basically what I am saying is for most of us there isn't going to be any difference and most of us will never get to a HP level where it will ever make a difference so there isn't much to worry about. It's like buying tires rated to 350mph cause they are better than tires rated at 320mph. Either way your not gettin close so what’s the difference?