Do I need Original Cam Holders for New Head???

[scottr126]

Hey I warped my original head beyond repair and now I just got a new one, but it is completely bare. No Cams, cam holders, lifters or rockers, all it has is the valves and springs. I have all my original parts from my old head. Can I use those parts on the new one? Any tips or info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Big Woo]

"cam holders"? Do you mean the cam journal caps? If you do then you will need the ones that were originaly machined for the head. Or you will have to find a differnt set of caps and have head align bored to accomodate the new/differnt caps.

Again this is no differnt than putting the wrong rod cap on a connecting rod, or the wrong main cap on the wrong main journal. They are all machined in place while torqued to the proper spec. Bearing caps are also aligned with some sort of regester, (I.E. dowel pins, dowel rings, ect) ( in a nut shell) They are machined to a specific diameter so that when assembled proper clearences are achieved.

 

[scottr126]

Alright well excuse me for being dumb but this is my first head assembly. The caps from my original head go into the new head smoothly and dont seem to have any fitment problems. What can happend if I use the caps from a different head over time or immediately?

 

[jdmawd]

cam journal caps folow the *original* head, you can not swap caps they will not work.

 

[Suparata]

Originally posted by scottr126
Alright well excuse me for being dumb but this is my first head assembly. The caps from my original head go into the new head smoothly and dont seem to have any fitment problems. What can happend if I use the caps from a different head over time or immediately?

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT DOING THAT!!!
Get yourself a good head.

 

[scottr126]

Geese you guys talk about heads like they are $20 and are available at walgreens. I live in Illinois and so far I have been around to like 4 junkyards around here, I have gotten like 3 different heads and all of them have turned out to be bad as I was told by a machine shop, This head that I have right now is the only one that has turned out to be good and it is the 4th one i have had, so Im just gonna give it a try due to the fact I dont really have many other options. But thanks for all your help. And I will post soon w/ results, GOOD or bad!

 

[Suparata]

I am saying it again
DON'T DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It'll cost you if you do it.
Of course they are not cheap but it's cheaper to get a good head than to fix an entire engine , that's if there will be something left to fix.

 

[scottr126]

Have you had any experiences w/ this? I talked to one of the guys at ams and he said that its not a big deal just have it checked at a machine shop to make sure they will line up good.

 

[pneumo]

Well, if ya gotta try it, at least do some checking first. Put the cams in without the lifters so the cams can spin without anything pushing on them, and see if they spin freely. If there's any binding, it will eat through the bearing surface in no time. Checking for freeplay is almost impossible. You're taking a gamble there.

If they bind, take it to a machine shop and see if they can align hone the cam jourmals. Getting all the tolerances right won't be easy. You don't want to remove hardly any material from the bottom of the bearing surface, which would lower the cam in the head. You might have to remove material from the base of the caps so they fit slightly lower, then hog them out during the align hone process. Talk to some machine shops first, see what the cost is, and see how capable they are.

 

[Suparata]

Of course I had experienced something like this. I just took a few like that to have them melted.
What you have there it's just a worthless piece of aluminum. It is not worth fixing something like that.
Listen to what you are told by more than one guy and don't become just another engine Murderer.
Don't treat your nice car with disrespect .

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[jdmawd]

Originally posted by scottr126
Have you had any experiences w/ this? I talked to one of the guys at ams and he said that its not a big deal just have it checked at a machine shop to make sure they will line up good.

You are ####ing stupid if you want to try it go right ahead. you're cams will turn out like this and the journal galleys will look the same.

 

[scottr126]

pneumo

I just wanted to update on what I ended up doing. But first of all let me say that I am a poor 17 yr old kid that was doing all of the work himself on a low low budget, and thats the only reason i did the this the cheap way. But, I just wanted to thank Pnuemo for his input because it actually helped out alot. I took his advise and strapped the cams down without rockers or anything and with the caps that i had and the intake was perfect, it rotated freely and smoothly and had no play. But the exhaust cam was stuck when tightend and wouldnt move. So what i did was I went to the junkyard and pulled some caps off of the exhaust cam of 2 engines there and tried both sets and sure enough the 1st set I tried worked out perfectly. I got lucky. I didnt need to get a new head or have it honed out. I have put about 500 miles on my car since the rebuild and it has ran perfectly without a sound. Thanks everyone for their input!

 

[pneumo]

Thanks for the update! It's rare to get feedback like that. I'm glad it's worked out.