Cylinder sleeves, sleeve, sleeving [Merged 9-7] block bore cylinder

[special_K86]

How much hp can the stock sleeves handle? Thanks- Kevin

 

[98Turbbo420A]

we don't have cyclinder sleves, we use an iron block. It isn't a honda motor!

 

[special_K86]

oh sorry, my mistake, thanks- Kevin

 

[LV-DSM]

Here's the situation. Rebuilding my 6 bolt 4G63 block, bought some 8.5 1 Wiseco pistons about 6 months ago. My machine shop says that they are 85 mm and I need to have 85.5, block needs to be punched .20 over. Is it possible to sleeve a 4g63 and has anyone done it. It's common on Hondas, but never heard of it on our motors. Also, if it's possible, anyone know what the sleeves cost and where to get them. Thanks.

 

[kpt4321]

The question is, why do it?

Honda guys have weaker blocks then we do, with a different design, so they need the added strength of iron sleeves. You should be fine just having the motor bored out.


....Kyle T.

 

[LV-DSM]

In a perfect world I would, and gladly. Problem is, I got screwed over on my Wisecos's and they are standard bore. I'm dreading having to sell the 85mm and buying new 85.5's. It's just time consuming. I've been driving a 1.3 liter Subaru Justy for 3 months and I'm just getting a little impatient. Know anyone that want's to buy some pistons??????

 

[Mo-Bo0st]

I recently had my short block assembled by a local machine shop and when I got the car all put back together and fired it up it smoked like a frieght train.

Well I pulled the head and have two of the gnarliest groves in #1 cylinder I have ever seen. The owner of the shop and the guy who assembled it came over to my house and checked it out and said that it looks like the wrist pin clip came out and the pin is what gouged the wall.

They said something about sleeving the block, but i was wondering if this is a good option on our cars or not. Is there any advantage or dissadvantage to this?

Is there another proposal that i should make to the shop that would be better than sleeving the block?

They are already going to be replacing all the bearings, probably the pistons, possibly the turbo and they are going to be swallowing the cost of labor wherever I take it to as well.

Any info you guys can give me would be really appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Morriss

BTW - I searched for info on sleeving and found nothing.

 

[Wobble]

well, since the block is iron.. you wont get much extra strenght from sleaving. and you could probably just find a used block and bore it 20 over for less that the cost of sleeving.. but thats just my guess..

 

[Mo-Bo0st]

I understand its not the cheapest route, but im not paying for it, the shop that ####ed up is.

So my question is, is this a good solution or not? If not what is?

Thanks

 

[fastalon]

u know good thread i was about ot ask the same thing. i havea buschur stage 1 shortblock and same kinda thing happend. A huge groove int he pisotn wall and i to was wondering if i can sleeve it.

 

[gritsak]

ive never heard of anyone sleeving a dsm block...even if you could why would you? putting in a new or upgraded sleeve isnt a simple job, just check out hondas, theres several top companies, all of which still have problems getting the sleeves in right..it requires lots of tight tolerance machine work..and if the shop cant even put a motor together right then this is the last thing ide want them to be doing on my car.

my opinion is just to make them pay for a fresh block

 

[Groomz]

Sleeving is only something done to aluminum blocks such as LS1/LS6s or Honda engines. I have never heard of anyone sleeving an iron block, which would seem sort of redundant. Get that shop to find you a 6 bolt and go from there. Aluminum flakes if it is the only surface that the piston contacts, so aluminum blocks use iron "sleeves" so that the piston has the iron to guide it, while still having the lightweight advantage of aluminum.

 

[a351must2]

Originally posted by Groomz
Sleeving is only something done to aluminum blocks such as LS1/LS6s or Honda engines. I have never heard of anyone sleeving an iron block, which would seem sort of redundant. Get that shop to find you a 6 bolt and go from there. Aluminum flakes if it is the only surface that the piston contacts, so aluminum blocks use iron "sleeves" so that the piston has the iron to guide it, while still having the lightweight advantage of aluminum.

They sleeve iron blocks and it does not retract from the strength...if anything it ensures a more uniform wall thickness on the particular bore that has been sleeved. A friend of mine scored a 2.6L Cologne V6 (German built Ford block) block while installing the pistons and getting it sleeved was cheaper than finding another block and blueprinting it all over again. It's just not commonly done on iron block due to the expense involved.

 

[92fwd-t]

i have sleeves in mine my friend the ex owner of the car got them done cuz he scratched the block and .050 pistons on the way

 

[turbohappy]

Here at Cummins, we produce nearly all of our engines (iron block) with removable piston sleeves.

 

[Mo-Bo0st]

My question now is this; If I choose to accept the sleeve as a repair will this affect me negatively if I want to make a decent amount of power down the road? Keep in mind that they will only be sleeving the one hole. I am willing to accept this fix if there are no negative side affects. Will the cylinder right next to the one with the sleeve in it be weaker due to the wall being thiner?

Thx guys.

 

[rookieupgrade1]

The sleeve option will have no negative effects on perfomance provided they get the fit correct. As stated earlier the sleeve provides a more uniform wall thickness whick would benifit you in reguards to heat dispersal. (you will be less likely to get hot spots) The cylinder bore next to the sleeve should not suffer any negitive effects.

My $.02

 

[HighPsi91]

Given the option of sleeving a block or using a new one... I would always choose a new one. 4G63 blocks are far too plentiful and cheap to even mess around with sleeving. Sleeving is just one more operation where mistakes could be made.

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by HighPsi91
Given the option of sleeving a block or using a new one... I would always choose a new one. 4G63 blocks are far too plentiful and cheap to even mess around with sleeving. Sleeving is just one more operation where mistakes could be made.

Basically that is what I was saying. Sleeving the block would definitely provide a strength increase, but 4G63 motors are bulletproof already. Sleeving is only worth it if you have something like an aluminum block already. If a manufacturer designs an iron block with sleeves, all the better. I think the best way to increase the block strength of the 4G63 would be to have it cryogenically treated. That way you increase the overall rigidity of the block instead of just the bores themselves. Sleeving is not a bad thing for sure, just might not be cost effective on a block that is not originally sleeved to begin with.

 

[HighPsi91]

There is no proof that cryo treating a block will help anything relevant. The best and most cost effective way of strengthening a block is to fill the water jackets with hard blok. And dont think the 4g63s are bulletproof blocks.. i have cracked cylinder walls already, of course i make a little more power than average

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by turbohappy
Here at Cummins, we produce nearly all of our engines (iron block) with removable piston sleeves.

erm... aren't those wet? Makes it a bit iffy to run without them....

 

[myblack98gst]

well considering the guys that are running in the 9 second 1/4 range are running basically stock blocks then I think you will be okay for any power you will actually get down..

I would def. go with a fresh block though.... finding a shop that can successfully install sleeve would be hard... and if they didn't get your motor together right thn I would be willing to bet I wouldn't trust them to sleeve it.

 

[91turboTSi]

I would def. go with a fresh block though

Acctually, most race cars use seasoned blocks because that way the metal has hardened more than a "fresh" block would.

 

[ITSME4G63]

Hey! I see alot of honda sleeves forsale online, I know they do not make them for dsms , I'm just wonderign why? Besides the fact that our engine can take alot.

 

[92awddsm]

1- we have cast iron blocks, not aluminum with thin weak sleeves like a honda
2- our blocks have a solid deck instead of an open deck like a honda block