agp 50 trim to4e, .63 a/r stage 3 spool times

[UncleBens]

I recently installed a full garret kit - agp 50 trim to4e, .63 a/r stage 3 wheel and 4 bolt turbine housing with the sfp manifold and external, etc.

I did a search and didn't find a whole lot of spool times for this specific turbo but from a couple I found and from what I've heard, I think that it should be spooling faster. If this is normal than thats fine (little bigger turbo than I thought) but I dont want to dig into and try to debug a problem if this is normal spool.

In third gear, flooring it a 2k, its hits 20psi around 4200 rpms and in 4th gear its about 4k.

I have a 95 2g AWD. I have a good flowing 3" exhaust, o2 housing from the agp kit. Stock engine (no cam upgrade), open air filter. DSMLink thats tuned pretty decent on pump gas.

My car is pretty healthy, two weeks ago, right before this turbo, I ran a 12.5 @ 110 on the 14b. I pressure tested the 14b two weeks ago in which it was pretty solid. I haven't pressure tested the garret yet but my manifold and turbo bolts are tight and my lower IC pipe was the only other thing changed and i'm pretty sure that is on solid too but i'll pressure test and post if that turns up bad. I'm also probably going to run the turbo at the track this weekend.

What do you guys think, I prefer replys from those that actually have the turbo or accurately know what this specific turbo should be spooling instead of guesses based on other similar turbos.

Heres a quote from 'unreal' who has the same turbo as me.

About 3900-4000 in 3rd, and 3700-3800 in 4th for 20psi.
272/272, VPC, 2.5" exhaust, running rich as hell, magnus intake.

Friend with a .48 housing gets full boost 300-400rpms faster in every gear, and car still pulls hard as hell. Thats a very good option also.

 

[Unreal]

Tons of factors affect spool. Yours may be different, but it should be faster than what you have now.

Tuning will make a huge difference. What timing and a/f are you seeing? The leaner the exhaust, the faster the turbo will spool.

Hell, my car has almost no compression, a 2g with 8.5:1 or higher should spool it way better.

In the end, if its bothering you, go with the .48. Anyone that has an issue with lag should get the .48. If I had a daily driver/2g I would go 50 trim in a 48 or an "l1r".

Elevation will also have an affect.

 

[UncleBens]

RPM Fuel(%) Timing(deg)
500 - 4 +2
1000 - 4 +2
1500 - 4 +2
2000 - 4 +2
2500 - 4 +3
3000 - 4 +4
3500 - 4 +4
4000 - 4 +4
4500 - 4 +2
5000 - 4 +2
5500 - 4 +2
6000 - 4 +2
6500 - 4 +2
7000 - 4 +2
7500 - 4 +2
8000 - 4 +2
Global fuel: -32%
Dead time: +180 us

This is pump gas, were you quoting spool time for race gas? I could lean it out a ton more with race gas. As for pump, I could try leaning out the lower rpms some but the higher rpms cant lean out too much more without knock. As you can see, I advanced the timing during pre spool to try to help spool faster.

My o2 sensor took a shit so I cant tell you the readings on that but I'm pretty sure that feedback from the o2 is not used during WOT so that shouldn't be my problem. I ordered a new one.

I have good compression, 190 accross all 4 cylinders, 1000 foot elevation.

In the end, if its bothering you, go with the .48

I can live with the lag but what bothers me the most is if its suppose to spool quicker than something with my setup is not right and I'll have to go through it and find the problem.

 

[Kingdom]

Shouldnt the VPC make it spool faster?

 

[Z1500]

Originally posted by UncleBens
I have good compression, 190 accross all 4 cylinders, 1000 foot elevation.

You have 190 compression on a stock 2g motor? I've only even seen that on 9.0:1 motors. Something isn't right, you should be getting full boost under 4k. What BOV do you have? Check for leaks.

Kevin

 

[Unreal]

Yes, a VPC will cause a turbo to spool noticeably faster. Someone should buy mine in fact cause its forsale.

All the numbers you posted are 100% useless. Those give no idea of actual a/f. Only way to tell is a wideband.

Timing belt set right? Being off a tooth could screw things up. Plugs and all that good? Vacuum/boost leak?

 

[swordfish]

Get off your rumpus and do a pressure test. Also check for leaks on the hotside where the maifold meets the head and where the turbo is connected to the manifold. Like a bolt that has backed out.

jeff

 

[UncleBens]

Did a pressure test to 24 psi with an air compressor and the results were pretty decent. It takes about 15 seconds for it to lose pressure from 24 down to 15psi and another 15 to go to 10psi. At 10psi it stablizes and goes down slowly, takes over a minute to go from 10psi to zero. I could probably find them and tighten it up some but I was in a hurry to go to the track. I've seen bad boost leaks before, I consider the results pretty good.

Those numbers are from a dsmlink which adjust my fuel (650 injectors) so the computer thinks it has 450's. So those fuel numbers should give you some idea of how much fuel is going through. The timing numbers i gave you are the advance from stock timing not my overall timing. My timing is only peaking around 16psi with little to no knock on pump gas.

At the track today my act 2100 was giving my problems slipping (i know, I need a 2600) but I managed to get one good run in without to much slip.

60' - 1.788
330' - 5.119
1/8 - 7.863 @ 90.75 mph
1000' - 10.221
1/4 - 12.210 @ 113.55

This was on 116 sunoco race gas. 23.5 PSI. 1000' elevation. 73 degrees out 75% humidity. Near full weight, car weighed 3275lbs with me in it.

Here are my dsmlink settings

RPM Fuel(%) Timing(deg)
500 -10 +2
1000 -10 +2
1500 -10 +2
2000 -10 +2
2500 -10 +3
3000 -10 +4
3500 -10 +4
4000 -10 +4
4500 -10 0
5000 -10 0
5500 -10 0
6000 -10 0
6500 -10 0
7000 -10 +1
7500 -10 +1
8000 -10 +1
Global fuel: -32%
Dead time: +180 us

This was the best I tuning I could do with the limited time I had to work with the race gas. Advancing timing was cuasing knock and any leaner settings was causing knock and so I ended up with these settings for my best run. I'm sure tuning will improve as I get more runs and a act 2600 in.

I made a post of the log for you guys http://www.importevolution.com/logs/12-2run.htm

I checked my belt a couple months ago and the base timing was fine. My car has 60k miles though and its due for a change. Plugs are fine, couldn't find any lose manifold or tubo bolts. I did the compression test right but maybe my guage is wrong, I'll try another. Also, forgot to mention that I have a big greddy FMIC stock lower IC pipe, brode UICP.

My BOV is a stock 1g uncrushed.

 

[Z1500]

Originally posted by UncleBens
Did a pressure test to 24 psi with an air compressor and the results were pretty decent. It takes about 15 seconds for it to lose pressure from 24 down to 15psi and another 15 to go to 10psi.

Also, forgot to mention that I have a big greddy FMIC stock lower IC pipe, brode UICP.

OK, no boost leaks.

Do you have any indication of over rich? 700EGT's or something?

The Greddy I/C with 10miles of 2" piping is not going to be helping much.

Your times or OK considering first time at the track with new set-up but you should be able to pick up quite a bit. 6-7mph easy.

Kevin

 

[UncleBens]

I've managed to bring my spool down to 4k in 3rd and 3800 or so in fourth. I did two thing mainly. I bought a bigger air filter, the k&n FIPK. My previous one was a generic k&n knock off so I'm not sure if it flowed as well, it was also undersized.

But the main problem was right in front of all of our faces. See the dsmlink settings i posted above. Under 4k I have the timing advanced. I was trying to get some extra low end power and air flow but the pre spool timing advance was actually hurting the spool.

Less timing = more hot/high energy exhaust gases in the exhaust manifold to help spool. I set pre spool timing back to zero and even played with settings as low as -5 and seen immediate results.

I forgot to look at my EGT while I was doing all this but I'm sure I would have seen the pre spool EGT's go up as I retarded timing.

I think my low mph was due to a lack of timing advance on the top end. 16-17 degrees max isn't that great. I've managed to manipulate my timing advance curve to allow more timing without knocking so I'm confident I can get a better mph at the track. I still have to put my act 2600 in this week so I should be back at the track in a couple weeks. I have some better race gas (vp c16) sitting in my garage waiting