Question on 16G-20G turbo's

[RipperXX]

Ok first off is a 16G powerfull enough to need a wastegate?

And 2nd im going to take the time to explane why i want a 16G over a larger turbo then you can tell me if a little of my info is wrong.. ok if i am correct a 16G can run 20PSI without a big problem and fairly stedy...and it since it is smaller it will spoll up quicker and for 1/4 mile that is a good thing.. and if i were to get the 100,000rpm spin balanced one from Extream I would know for damn sure there is know way in hell it is going to fly apart ..also there not that bad of a price...now a 20G putout more power but as i have stated in another thread I want this car to last though alot of abuse and play to but at the same time i want it to be right at 400HP I dont feel there is a need for anymore than this.. i just want to smoke my friends and a few *** head rice wanabe's around here...along with haveing a great handeling car...

now if any one could tell me the output (normal gain HP on a 2L DSM) and the time it takes the turbo to reach 10-15-20 etc. psi I could make a wiser choice... i am thinking a 16G may not be enough though and if not then i guess a 20G would be the next in line or would a 18G be just enough?

also if some one could tell me the normal amout of HP gained from 1PSI it would be helpfull and if it is not obveus the reasion i dont want a big turbo is they take longer to spool up... i want something with as quick of a response as posible.. without going to a supercharger..

but then again i duno if you used a clutch like on a AC pully you could turn the super charger on and off at will (this is why im going with turbo becouse as long as i dont get on it my gasmileage isn't that bad) plus most turbos sound cooler and for some reasion i have not heard of ppl puting superchargers DSM's anyone know why???

 

[InferiorWang]

for 400hp you would want at least the 20g. The 16g can handle 20 psi and mebbe a little more but after a certain point it's just blowing hot air. Don't get me wrong, the 16g is a great turb and is what I'm gonna get, but my goals are 350hp max, prolly not even that much. 16g will spool sooner for street use, but 20g will blow cooler air and will flow more. And don't thingk 18g, the 20g is the next real step from the 16g. I've heard some bad things about the 18g.

 

[RipperXX]

hmm anyone know anything about a 18G? cause i sure dont...

and im doing alot of internal mods... practicly rebuilding the whole engine with high preformance parts...so i was thinking the 16G would get me close if not maybe a bit above 400HP... hmmm..

 

[candela]

Well wang is pretty right... with a little research you will find that a 16g will get you no where near 400whp, and prolly not even close to 400 flywheel horsepower unless you have lots of parts and tuning capability. Big16g's (mine at leist) are just fuggin awesome turbo's. Wit a well prepped motor and car for that matter, a big16 will be very potent street car. Im not sure what kind of power I was making, but with my 7.8 and 8.5:1 CR I was getting full boost ( i ran 18psi on 91 octane) at around 3150rpm maybe 3200... At the track my Big16g held 23psi to redline easily and pulled wonderfully as well. However if this turbo is not enough then go straight to a 20g.... 18G only flows 600cfm compared to 550 for the big16 and the maps arent nearly as efficient as either the 16 or 20g... This is my opinion of course, but the 20g only is a tiny bit less laggy than a big16g (not even to noticable) but you can definetly feel the power difference up top... Its a great street turbo and definetly isnt too laggy to be considered! My friends and I got 20psi @ 3400-3500rpm....

Noone can tell you what youlll get full boost at as every setup is different. However if you realistically know what 400whp feels like and thats what you want then go with the 20g

 

[RipperXX]

hmm... I think I will go with a Big16G then.. if that dont do it then I'll try to get a refund and get a 20G..

Thanks man (but actuly I have never driven a car over 195HP (stock talon) and I didn't even drive it hard .. so for the moment 400 is plently to kick these wana be's ass's and show up my friends Formula Firebird and 300ZX

 

[RipperXX]

BTW would you say the Spoolin up FMIC is better than the DSS FMIC?

becouse it has higher flow and is larger...and it's $800 vs $1,100...im not sure if 80% efficently is great or not but it dont sound bad to me...the DSS one does not say the rateing for efficentcy so eh?

 

[candela]

Ya well most new guys think that its pretty easy to do it and have actually no experience with that much power...

You should just stick to the basic mod list and go throught the steps. You wont waste any money or ahve to buy anythign our of order, so just go through it and do it one step at a time

 

[RipperXX]

well I was just trying to figure out the HP gain from sertan parts and how good they are etc.. (doing my homework) I have seen and been in plently of cars at and over 400HP though it's just that i was to young at the time to drive them ... and im not some 18yr old kid that dont know crap about cars and just thinks he can buy the parts stick them on and yea... My father has been working on cars since he was 15 (he is 57 now) so i have been around beefy V8's all my life.. only this is not something I am used to (4cyl i mean) or turbos... in the world of a V8 a Supercharger is the only way.. i still dont see why ppl dont use them on DSM's... i mean it's belt driven... so instant boost...no lag at all.. and should put out the same PSI rateings if the engine can turn the same RPM and 4cyl normaly turn alot more than a big V8 can sooo... why do you guys use Turbo chargers???? oh well maybe it's just a 4cyl thing

But as much as i love the torq and power of a nice big hemi I just plane love driveing a Talon way more than some hevy ass poor handeling car.. so this Classic American car lover is moveing on into the ### way of things...

any way thanks for all the help from the ppl here i guess I will just wait and see what happens and ask the questions when I am ready to buy my next upgread... the thing was though see i was planing on buying most all of it at once.. just drive the car with stock equipment only modify it.. and then once i have the cash for all the upgreads park it for a month and do it all at once.. Fuel system, engine internals, fuel management, gagues, exhaust the whole 9 yards cam shafts, valves pistons etc. other wise i know im gona top it out everytime i change something just to see how much it helped (or hurt) and i know i'll break something...so i figure if i build the engine right the first time (inard wise) then im good to go for all the other stuff...that way i dont have to worry about every little psi etc. being one to many

 

[candela]

Im not saying your a newb dude...

I hope you do not park it and do it all at once though. I think that is a bad idea for a few reasons. Doing everythign step by step is not only helpfl in teaching you about your car but also what eveyrthign does and how it reacts to changes. If you do everythign at once you will have a car go from night to day and you may be inmpressed but you wont know what works and what doesnt. You should also consider the fact the if somethign goes wrong youll be stuck on trying to figure it out. Do one or a couple tings at once, no need to save for everythign and then compeltely change the car. Dont be scared to beat the motor, they are more than powerful enough and WILL handle lots of power easily. No need to build your motor with internals etc, especially if your just going for like 400whp

You say you wanted to figure out HP gains, so then do it. Install and go in stages with your car and see what you get

 

[RipperXX]

hmmm... well I was considering what you said about how the car reacts etc.... it's just I was thinking it would be easier to do all the stuff to the motor since one or two things might mean i would have to pull the engine.. and I HATE doing that.. since then you have to color code or label every freaking wire and hose... but i guess it wouldn't be a good idea to do it all at once.. er but i want it to be a show car too see.. and well i hate the red & black paint job.. i like white and red or solid blue.. a nice bright blue.. kinda like the one in your sig ... and that means i would have to paint the engine bay and on the inside of the doors etc. so i figured when im rebuilding the engine then just paint it too..


but see since i have no idea about the guy that last owned it (how he drove it) I wanted to rebuild it anyway... im pretty sure im gona at least put in stronger rods and upgread valves.. i duno i guess im just a little afrade of trying to get more power from the turbo.. i would rather the engine make it... plus i just dont trust stock parts at all once you start runing anything out of spec..

either way the engine is gona get a rebuild.. if there is any scareing or anything i guess i will boar it out .30 over and hone it... but other wise i guess i will keep the boar at stock..and not use oversized valves... im just afrade of the engine blowing ... i do NOT wana spend all my money on the car to have the engine blow up on me...which is why i wana build it so bad.. i duno though you think rebuilding the engine like im talking about would add much HP? should add about 80-120HP shouldn't it? becouse i was thinking that plus a 16G and i should be at around 400hp..


I mean im gona take your advice for sure (since i was half way considering that anyway) but i duno im just sooo scared of blowing up the engine to a car im gona build not just for show but to go...since im gona be spending so much damn money on it!

dont get me wrong though im not afrade to dirve it hard but thats what scares me i know how i drive and if the right song comes on and im in the right streach of road im gona push the car to the limit (a little past 8,000rpm)

 

[n2orbit]

the turbo is where we make our power at. have your turbo go out on u on the way home and see how fast your car feels even with abuilt up motor. i bet that geo storm in the lane next to you will give you a run for your money..

think about this a civic with a built motor with a turbo kit put on see how much power it makes

then just throw on a couple bolt on out cars.. hmm civic got a bigger turbo and has every bolt on possible why is my BPU dsm with my lil t25 running next to him.... build the block and port the head. if u have decent miles it'll take a 16g all day long my buddy has 145k miles on the motor that came with the car and driv es it like shit.. but never a problem with the motor.. now the tranny heheh another story

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

building ur engine isnt ging to give you anywhere near an 80 hp gain, maybe if u bored it 30 over and had everything ported to hell and back and completly built with oversized valves, race spec cams, ect u might see a 50hp gain on ur current turbo and set up if ur lucky and tune it very good, but ur engine would be race built and wouldnt fair to well as a street car
a magnus 4g64 2.4l engine only claims a 50hp gain over a stock 2.0 engine, gaining 80 from building the engine on a turbo car is laughable, the only reason u build the engine on a turbo car is so it can handel more boost, more boost is what makes the power

8000rpm on a dsm is a joke, u would have to put race grind cams in to get any power that high, and then thats the only place u would have any power, ur low and mid rpm power would be pretty much gone, which is good for a track car and crap for a street car, not to mention u would have to remove ur 7500 rpm rev limiter

and u obviously havent done much research on this set up, a big 16g is good for about 375 hp on a fully built set up and thats at well over 20 psi(more like 24-25 psi), ur not going to make anywhere near 400 bhp with a 16g, i know people who are happy as hell to get their car to 400whp on a 20g with everything under their hood seriously ported

to make the 400 hp u want on pump gas u will need a pretty built engine, pistons, rods, ect would be a good idea, u will need good cams, a fully ported head, a ported 20g(probally at about 20 psi), a full fuel system, engine and fuel management, and just about every supporting mod u can think of, then after u spend alot of time tuning it you might make 400hp

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

oh, and in case u really didnt know, people use turbo and not superchargers because turbo makes considerably more power then a supercharger on any set up, and its spun by exhaust gasses instead of a parasitic pully

most domestic car guys are simpley behinde the times and their minds stuck in the 80s when superchargers were the only way to go, they just dont realize that they could put turbo on their v8 and make about 30% more power then with a supercharger

have u ever seen a supercharged 4 cylinder? i have seen several and they are all dirt slow, espicaly any honda with a jackson racing supercharger
now whats the most hp you have ever seen on a supercharged mustang? maybe 800? 1000? 1500? turbo mustang track cars make 2000 hp and they have to make rules and limitations to keep the hp that low, and these turbo mustangs run 8s
ever seen a dual turbo lingenfeltter vette? a guy around here has one, 700hp and runs low 10s on street tires, makes u wonder why people waste their time and money supercharging domestics only to get loads of useless torque and wheelspin instead of the raw horsepower they want

 

[candela]

Whats up tomb raider

 

[n2orbit]

u make 120 extra hp just by building up the motor i'll lick your asshole.. that be 330 at the crank