no start nightmare

[spatulahunter1]

I am having some serious issues trying to get my 95 tsi to start.

I dont drive the car very often and it sat for a few months and one day i went to start it to keep my battery charged and it wouldnt start right away and when it did it would start clicking from the MFI/MPI relay. I searched on here and found that the MFI relay was a common problem that could cause this so I replaced that. Unfortunately, i was wrong and the car did the same thing with the new MFI relay. So I went back to the boards and saw that this could be an ecu problem as well, so i went ahead and ordered a new ecu off of ebay. This also turned out to be a dead end as the car still does the same thing. I also read that a bad ground or low voltage condition could cause this so i rewired all of my power and ground connections and replaced the battery. This also didnt help at all. In fact it actually seems to be getting worse. Now when I crank my car it seems that the starter will sometimes pause for a few seconds and not crank. I dont think that this is an issue with the starter though because when it does crank it will sputter a bit like it wants to start and then die before it really fires up (it was firing before and running very rough and then dying). Also one time after I tried to start it i heard a strange tapping that came from somewhere on the firewall, i think behind the intake manifold. This noise continued until i killed the ignition and then it hasnt came back. Also ive checked compression and that seems to be fine. Ive let my plugs arc to see if they are igniting and they seem to do that and I definitely have unburnt gas in the cylinders.

Sorry about the long post but im totally lost and not sure what to check yet. Im hoping there is enough information here that someone could point me in the right direction so i can stop wasting money on parts that arent bad.

Thanks in advance guys.

 

[bastard dsm]

could be bad gas also, but if you changed the relay and got a good ecu on the car and it doesnt start..start going through the basics. check for spark, make sure the injectors are firing ect.

 

[spatulahunter1]

I also just checked the ignition cylinder and that is good, all the wires test voltage when they should.

Good call on the gas, im gonna go check that just to rule out the basics. Do i need to drain the tank or could i put in some dry gas or just add more premium?

 

[spatulahunter1]

Arggh now it wont crank at all, im gonna test the starter in the morning and see if that is bad

 

[ilco187]

wow after reading you post i see why its a nightmare, all those things combined would lead me to think alot of things, are the plugs wet when you pull them out.

 

[93blueGS]

Does it turn over at all? I would do like was said above and check the basics (fuel/spark).. When was the last time the fuel filter was changed?

 

[spatulahunter1]

plugs arent wet but they reek of gas when i pull them. The fuel filter is newish, i replaced it about 1.5-2 years ago but that was less than 5,000 miles of driving in that time period

 

[spatulahunter1]

I just found two problems, first off one of the bolts on my starter (oem) was so loose it could be unthreaded by hand. Once i pulled it out i could see that the threads on that side were almost completely destroyed. Im not sure if the starter some how came loose and did this overtime or if this was done by the idiot who replaced the transmission 5 years ago.
The second problem was the coolant temp sensor wires were breaking, one wire was completely severed and the other wire was close.

Im going to fix these two problems and see where that leaves me

 

[ilco187]

oh yeah i forgot about if the coolant temp sensor has broken or its not connected it will take alot of cranking and will spit and sputter, thats more than likely the problem.

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

If your cts was bad, it would still start it would just take about 50 revolutions before it would barely catch, in colder weather. Your battery should be at 12.7v and at 13.7-14.5v with the car running. Check the wiring to the starter and make sure your grounds are all connected.

 

[spatulahunter1]

Well i fixed the starter and the loose connection on the CTS and the car still wont really start. If i hold the throttle and crank it i can get it to start and run horribly for about a minute but its barely burning any gas. You can smell the gas in the exhaust really bad when i do this. It smelled strong enough that my neighbors came over to check and make sure someone didnt leave the gas on from the stove heh.

Im almost wondering if i am actually leaking gas somewhere, I guess the next step would be to check fuel pressure and see if im losing pressure somewhere. Does anyone have any other ideas.

 

[Kalisko]

Can you smell gas in the engine bay when you're trying to start it? It could be some o-rings. Also, what exactly were your compression test results?

I had this issue when my coolant temperature sensor went bad. Like stated before, It'd take quite a few cranks to get it to start, then it would run horrible until the motor heated up a little bit. I could barley get it on during the winter.


Did you swap out spark plugs/wires? I'd do a complete tune up for those if you haven't done that in awhile. Also, make sure your MAF sensor is plugged in. If you have a boost leak tester go ahead and do that too. It'll rule out vacuum issues.

And one more thing, if you have a fuel rail with a return fuel line then pop it off and crank it for a couple seconds, it should spit fuel out, if not I'd say clogged filter or fuel pump.

I'm just trying to give you ideas. Good luck bro

 

[spatulahunter1]

Can you smell gas in the engine bay when you're trying to start it? It could be some o-rings. Also, what exactly were your compression test results?

I had this issue when my coolant temperature sensor went bad. Like stated before, It'd take quite a few cranks to get it to start, then it would run horrible until the motor heated up a little bit. I could barley get it on during the winter.


Did you swap out spark plugs/wires? I'd do a complete tune up for those if you haven't done that in awhile. Also, make sure your MAF sensor is plugged in. If you have a boost leak tester go ahead and do that too. It'll rule out vacuum issues.

And one more thing, if you have a fuel rail with a return fuel line then pop it off and crank it for a couple seconds, it should spit fuel out, if not I'd say clogged filter or fuel pump.

I'm just trying to give you ideas. Good luck bro

ill try the return line test for sure, right now im thinking that maybe something weird is happening with fuel because of the smell. Im not exactly sure of the origin of the fuel smell though, i have allergies and i cant point it out well.

I have a new cts in, it tested it yesterday and its good, my MAF is plugged in, and my compression is good (its always been a little above stock factory specs, not sure why its so awesome in a 14 year old car).

I think i have some small boost leaks, ive fixed a few but i need to test again to make sure its a 100% sealed up

 

[Kalisko]

I'd say look down all your fuel lines under the car and see if one busted.

 

[spatulahunter1]

I'd say look down all your fuel lines under the car and see if one busted.

I checked it out, the fuel lines look to be in decent shape. I also pulled the return line on the rail and its shooting gas outta the rail pretty well so i think fuel is fine.

I pulled my plugs (which were actually new, less than 1000 miles for sure) and they looked to be fouled. They are covered in carbon buildup, im cleaning them right now and then im gonna see if it will start. They are Bpr7es gapped to .028. Im wondering if i need to switch to a bpr6es or a hotter plug. I grounded them against the valve cover and they are sparking but they dont seem to be getting a complete spark. Also I am running a fairly new set of bosch 7mm mag core premium wires.

Would i be better off to switch to a set of bpr6es plugs with ngk wires? Ive thrown alot of cash at this car lately so im trying to not buy any extra parts if i can avoid it but if i need to i will def get a different set up.

Can i test the voltage from the ignition wires with a meter? will this tell me if i have strong enough current or if the wires are good?

 

[ilco187]

time to check compression at all cylinders i feel like something is not quite right, also pull the valve cover and make sure none of the rockers have fell off and not opening some of the valves.

 

[spatulahunter1]

also i just checked and my plug wires had between 650-1100 ohms of resistance with the longer wires having more resistance, is this right or should it be lower?

 

[spatulahunter1]

I finally got it started, I think that for whatever reason that my car doesnt like the bpr7es plugs, they are almost new but they were completely fouled once i cleaned them it started right up, its kinda idling like crap but i can sort that mess out later on, im just stoked it started

 

[ilco187]

oh the bpr7es yes i hate them damn plugs my car will not fire on those junk dogshit plugs either, and ive bought 3 sets and they misfire like a its like they dont have enough spark to ignite before the fuel comes in and it floods out and ruins the plugs i put a set of autolite copper core's, misfire gone and no more start issues, for a minute i thought the rockers might have fell off the valves and it wasn't firing.

 

[spatulahunter1]

Im gonna replace them tommorow, the car will start but its still running like total crap so im hoping the 6s make a difference.
Also im pretty sure now that my rear o2 sensor is part of the problem. Once i got the car started i could hear my exhaust rattling a little bit because of the real low idle so i put my foot on the pipe and pushed a little and suprisingly as soon as i pushed the car shut down and wouldnt start again until i screwed with the plug on the o2 sensor again.

Right now the car wont rev over 1500 rpms so i still have work to do but at least the damned thing starts now

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

I would look at some of the wiring. Cars that sit for long periods of time tend to collect rodents and they like to build their nests in crevaces that cannot be seen. They'll chew through wires and whatnot. Is the CEL on? If it is pull the code and find out what it's telling you.

Also, If the CTS is malfunctioning and giving the ECU a really low temperature reading then the ECU will richen the hell out of the mixture and you'll get your symptoms also.