20g or AGP LR series?

[SlikGSX]

Im looking for a good upgrade for a GSX

Mods:

3" Turbo Back Exhaust
Intake / FMIC
HKS Bov
ACT 2600lb Clutch
Gauges, S-AFC, 660cc Injectors, 255 Fuel Pump

At first I was thinking the Big16g....then people were talking me into the 20g until I was looking at AGP's website.

What turbo would be good for a low 12, maybe high 11 w/o replacing internals?

 

[Ed98GST]

Well, that depends on your price range. Also, there are differences in the wear patterns and spooling characteristics between the conventional bushing and dual bb turbos. Is it a daily driver? How much are you looking to spend? Internal or external wastegate preference?

 

[SlikGSX]

Well any turbo is gonna cost around a 1000 I figure. Yes it will be a street car, I have a daily driver (88' civic) but yes it will be a streetable car taken to the track weekly and raced on the street.

The thing that i'm not familiar with is internal/external wastegate. Does that replace a bov? I'd like it to spool up somewhere between 3200 and 3800. I don't want something that takes 4500rpm to get goin. Im looking to reach between 12.1-11.8 w/o getting pistons/rods etc

 

[candela]

Alright do not get annoyed with my response Im just trying to help k =)
I suggest that if you do not know what an internal/external wastegate or a BOV do then read up and learn a bunch before you go out and decide to spend a 1000$+ on a turbo setup. Knowledge is power and if you do your research and understand everything than basically selecting a turbo is finding the best price (once you know what theyre like). I dont understand how some poeple come so far on there cars without even knowing this kind of stuff.

Anyhow, there are many turbo's that will get you those types of times, but until you better understand what everything does, will you better be able to define what yu want out of a turbo, then leading to the decision of what you want. I really suggest not just going and buying one because so and so ran this, or the company said they can produce this much power...

Our motors can handle tons of power in stock form that most poeple, including me, prolly wouldnt even know how to make properly. I would think (as long as everything is in good shape before you start upgrading) that for such a time slip that the amount of power needed to get yoou there is very easily obtainable to the basic dsm'er...you just have to know your sh!t you know what I mean.

http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=32102&highlight=internal+external
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=30161&highlight=internal+external
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=29436&highlight=internal+external
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=21424&highlight=internal+external

these are all just basically the first few pages of results found on this site alone about this kind of stuff...

Austin

 

[Tevenor]

I would pick the AGP stuff over the 20G but then again I may be biased.

My L1R is pretty comparable to the flow of a 20G but I can get 21psi by 3000 rpm. The L1R is an awesome street turbo. Hell of a lot of fun to drive and should be perfect on a stock internal car. You could also go bigger with the L2R but it really depends on your goals.

I guess the real issue is what do you want your turbo for? Are you shooting for the 11's? Are you looking for a great street turbo? Are you looking for a road race/autocross turbo? Tell us your goals and we can tell you which turbos have the characteristics you are looking for.

 

[Ed98GST]

I agree with both of the above posts. Definitely figure out what exactly you'd like and expect out of your car and then choose. Personally, I'd choose any of the AGP L_R series over any 20G as well. Don't have one in my car now, but I've ridden in & driven a couple cars equipped with bb turbos and that's my preference for a "decent" sized streetable turbo. Then again, I do more highway driving than anything else, so transient boost response is my cup o' tea. Plus, you can't go wrong with AGP--good products, people, and business. Oh well, sorry for the OT.

 

[SlikGSX]

good for a low 12, maybe high 11 w/o replacing internals?

it will be a streetable car taken to the track weekly and raced on the street.

spool up somewhere between 3200 and 3800

What else do you want to know?

 

[ChicagoGSX]

The 20g is a proven turbo. Dual BB turbos are really the new trend in turbos and with good cause. Quicker spool and little to no lag between shifts makes them great street turbos. Downside is the added cost and that they are not as proven as say a 20g or FP Green. Both of those turbos have been proven to go 11s, but some people have also gotten 11 sec. time slips with AGP turboed cars.

 

[jdmawd]

here we go

the 20G and agp L series turbos are great weather you choose the ball bearing gt30 hybrids, or the conventional bearing hybrids. the fact that you are not comfortable with the differences between a BOV and wastegate, means NOTHING. there is uncountable amounts of tuning and upgrade information available to you in many forms. you are not an idiot, don't let others scare you away from what you want. contact a few of the many dsm venders and take there suggestion into consideration when making your final decision.

Good luck I found this tuning guide very explanatory and helped a ton in the beginning for me. http://www.extrememotorsports.com/g2stage/stageall.htm

read each step, and see how much you learn

 

[SlikGSX]

Thanks a lot. I know what a bov valve is just wasn't sure what the wastegate was. I mean I know it releases gas from the turbo and external does it better but that's as far as I know.

As far as tuning, a mechanic at my dad's shop is able to tune. Thanks for the link, i'll be reading that.

I guess I wanted to know how hard it would be for a Big16g to hit low 12's and then someone suggested the 20g and then I came across AGP and got confused with all the trims and stuff.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by SlikGSX
Thanks a lot. I know what a bov valve is just wasn't sure what the wastegate was. I mean I know it releases gas from the turbo and external does it better but that's as far as I know.

As far as tuning, a mechanic at my dad's shop is able to tune. Thanks for the link, i'll be reading that.

I guess I wanted to know how hard it would be for a Big16g to hit low 12's and then someone suggested the 20g and then I came across AGP and got confused with all the trims and stuff.

I hope you mean *tune up* not *tuing*. because if this guy is a repair mechanic I would not let him touch my car. You wont believe how well you can tune your car with a S-afc and data logger. you can take it a step further and get a wide band o2. a couple are available. I like the hks, but most don't for cost reasons.

 

[asian312]

I'm gonna stick up for the old dog. And say 20G. Tried and proven they've shown the ability to withstand punishment time and time again. Not saying anything bad about AGP or BB turbos, but they are fairly new to the DSM market (could be very wrong about this). Just seems they haven't had the rep of the old Mitsu yet. They are stirring the pot alot and making some fantastic new discoveries. If u're going BB might want to check out SBR (Slowboy Racing) GT series. I will admit the new Garret designs are superior to old Mitsu, but what u are asking is attainable be both. For me I choose proven and cheap --> 20G

As many have pointed out, the turbo is one "part" of the whole sha-bang. Driving and tuning are the tings that will make or break that time. I've been in your shoes, just as everyone else has been. 1 month ago I started along the same trail. This past weekend I installed my first turbo. Search around and you'll be amazed at how the world changes. I went from Big 16, FP BigT29, AGP L1R, AGP L2R, 20G, back to T28 Kill, and finally to my Eliminator. Not to mention all the other part switches. I wont hi-jack the thread with stats (still tuning and waiting on injectors), but drop me a PM if u want to know more about this turbo. By far I think I am the newcomer to this game, but knowledge is power as Candela said. Good luck!

 

[Nappy94]

It all come's down to how fast you want to go and how much you want to spend.

 

[SlikGSX]

Yes, I meant tuning. You talked about tuning, and he knows how to use an AFC....that's what I meant

 

[candela]

Well if you were referring to me JDM, I wasn't trying to scair anyone away nor make anyone feel inferior... knowledge is power and the more you knoe about thwat your getting the better of you will be!
Those charesteristics you named slik are very broad, there are probably like 10 different turbos that fit all those.

There are tons of threads about each and every turbo. But I still suggest you find out a little more before you buy as you will be able to make a much more solid decision. If it is between the 20g and the L series turbos then call the manufacturers and ask questions. If the dont bother with your questions, answer them in full then they are not worth your time and money. I know for a fact that if you call (if they pick up ) www.agpturbo.com or www.slowboyracing.com that both of them will be more than happy to explain their particular setups to you and what they offer for advice shoudl be taken in as they are both great guys!

Simply put though, if your goal is simply low 12's than even a 16g will suit you. You will have to be able to really tune and drive but there are lots of people that have gone low 12's on them. I personally have run a best of 12.4@110 on mine and definetly feel I could have gone faster. A 20g will definetly get you there with some mild tuning. as will the agp turbo's. Specific turbo qualities, internal/external, spool/threshold, max boost, BB or bushing, ease of installation and your pure staisfaction hsould all be taken into. Both turbo's are quite different, just call and find out more to help in your decision,

Austin

 

[jdmawd]

Well if you were referring to me JDM, I wasn't trying to scair

no no no it was not directed toward you, i honestly didn't read your entire post. i just didnt want him to feel like it was a bad idea to do a big setup all at once

 

[larryd]

20G or L2R.. well Ive had issues with my setup but Id still choose the L2R just because of the boost response between shifts is instantaneous..

But in all honest if I was buying a turbo right now I would get neither, I would be buying a T3/T4 50trim .63AR with a stage 3 wheel. (PUMP GAS KING) Now I know I confused you more..haha

 

[SlikGSX]

heh, a little.....but ne thing I can get is good. I plan on buying everything in about a month as to be ready by april.

 

[awd11secgsx]

But in all honest if I was buying a turbo right now I would get neither, I would be buying a T3/T4 50trim .63AR with a stage 3 wheel. (PUMP GAS KING) Now I know I confused you more..haha

Agreed Larryd. I just went from a 20g to the 50trim. And even with some boost leak problems and tuning problems car still ripped. Tore the car down for the winter and am adding some more goodies. But from driving it on the 50trim it is one of the best turbo's I have experienced on a DSM.

On the topic of 20g or L2R. I would have to say go with 20g it is a proven turbo and will easily get you mid 11's on stock motor. I ran mid 11's on my BR 20g. I am not saying these AGP turbo's are no good I am just saying my experience has been with the mitsu turbo's and now the T3/T4 hybrid turbo's. Either turbo will perform great on a stock setup I am sure. I just happen to know that the 20g will produce mid 11 second times on a stock motor . Good luck either way with your choice. Later

Ed

 

[SlikGSX]

Thanks for the advice ed, I like the 20g b/c it's an older turbo and have been proven

 

[awd11secgsx]

No problem man. Good luck . Later

Ed

 

[Unreal]

AGP t3/t4 50 trim kit.

l2r if you want the faster spool.

l3r if you want a smoking deal, big fast spooling turbo at an awesome price.

 

[JayHass]

I don't know if you guys are saying BB turbo's are new as a whole or just to the DSM community but...

BB turbo's are NOT new by any stretch. The Garrett GT series turbo's have been used by MAJOR motorsport teams like F1 etc. HKS worked a deal with Garrett to use the GT series to their own spec, and FINALLY Garrett decided to release them at the consumer level.

They are proven and proven beyond anything a Mitsubishi turbo has done or will ever do. I don't see any IMSA GTP or Formula 1 cars running a 20G.

Having said that, the 20G is hard to beat in the bang for the buck area. I mean under a grand for a turbo that can run mid 11's and that price INCLUDES the wastegate. You are at least $500 cheaper than the other options.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by JayHass
I don't know if you guys are saying BB turbo's are new as a whole or just to the DSM community but...

BB turbo's are NOT new by any stretch. The Garrett GT series turbo's have been used by MAJOR motorsport teams like F1 etc. HKS worked a deal with Garrett to use the GT series to their own spec, and FINALLY Garrett decided to release them at the consumer level.

They are proven and proven beyond anything a Mitsubishi turbo has done or will ever do. I don't see any IMSA GTP or Formula 1 cars running a 20G.

Having said that, the 20G is hard to beat in the bang for the buck area. I mean under a grand for a turbo that can run mid 11's and that price INCLUDES the wastegate. You are at least $500 cheaper than the other options.

good points.

 

[asian312]

BB turbo's are NOT new by any stretch. The Garrett GT series turbo's have been used by MAJOR motorsport teams like F1 etc. HKS worked a deal with Garrett to use the GT series to their own spec, and FINALLY Garrett decided to release them at the consumer level.

This is very true and I love the idea that maybe one day my little track tsi will be spinning the same heart as a Lemans race spec monster, but what I think everyone was getting at was that they aren't yet proven in the mass consumer market. Remember that those cars (all major motorsports) have the money, time, and crew to rip apart and replace anything that didn't make it out of the last race. They are the highest tuned and custom built, many times around the turbo system. It's true that the race track is many times the proving grounds, but thats strapped to a 1/4 mil carbon deck w/ a hood that cost more than my car. Our cars are everyday beaters that have countless flaws whether it be due to design, lemons, or just bad maintainence. Not saying that they wont work, but the harshness of consumer cars pose different environments for the turbos.